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Personally, I don't believe that any of us can sit in both St. Marks/Hockaday and WW at the same time and evaluate their programs. Thus, I like to look at objective numbers. St. Marks has 20-25% the number of students, but generally has 20 NMSFs each year and WW has between zero and one. Hockaday's numbers are similar to St. Marks. Thus, despite having a nice IB program, the results are not resulting in the one objective measure that I can evaluate. (I can also point to the percentage of kids from Hockaday going to Top 25 colleges, but no one has those numbers for WW- or at least they don't publish them).
Back to my point, WW is a great public school for DISD, but DISD does not compare favorably to the burbs or private school. If you have an exceptional student, and want to live in East Dallas, you may want to consider private schools. I think LHHS might be slightly better, but not a whole lot better. If you student is somewhere between 25-75% kids (and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that), WW and LHHS might be a great fit. They both have wonderful neighborhoods and good communities.
I agree with your post, but with one tweak: WW & feeder schools are definitely on the upswing and LHHS is definitely on the downward spiral. The low income apartment kids at LHHS continue to become a larger % of the school's population and tend to lack the parental involvement that makes students successful. While one of my best friend's is a late 1990's LHHS / Harvard Law grad, she would never in a million years put her own kids into LHHS now. Test scores and college admissions strength has been declining for 10+ years now.
On the flip side, Lakewood and Jackson elementaries have absolutely, 110% become the in-town choice for those priced out of HPISD and private schools and who are educated and involved parents. I agree that the results are absolutely not happening at the high school level yet, but am following the story with curiosity and great interest to see what happens in the next 7-9 years. Will the parents with K-4 aged kids actually stay and choose Long / Woodrow? Will they apply and be admitted into DISD magnets? Will they choose less-expensive private schools like BL? Will they sell their beautiful homes in Lakewood and downsize into HPISD cottages? Or will they move to the burbs? Time will tell, but the answers will hold the keys to WW's future.
"...Vitale specifically mentioned Lakewood as having overcrowding problems. The school has eight kindergarten classes this year divided among 198 students"
Re: Woodrow IB. This is the first year of full IB implementation. It and the three other college prep academies are being phased-in over a four year period. Although five 2012 seniors did the extra work for an IB Diploma, this is the first official IB senior class, and it's about 40 students. There are approximately twice that number in the junior class. Many students have found that they don't want to give up extracurriculars or cannot handle the rigor, so there has been a significant attrition rate and this includes students who transferred from private school - I know of one from Greenhill and another from Cistercian, for instance along with several from other privates. They are now in AP and AP/IBCC.
"...Vitale specifically mentioned Lakewood as having overcrowding problems. The school has eight kindergarten classes this year divided among 198 students"
Re: Woodrow IB. This is the first year of full IB implementation. It and the three other college prep academies are being phased-in over a four year period. Although five 2012 seniors did the extra work for an IB Diploma, this is the first official IB senior class, and it's about 40 students. There are approximately twice that number in the junior class. Many students have found that they don't want to give up extracurriculars or cannot handle the rigor, so there has been a significant attrition rate and this includes students who transferred from private school - I know of one from Greenhill and another from Cistercian, for instance along with several from other privates. They are now in AP and AP/IBCC.
I take three main points from that article:
1) the current class size for Kindergarten is 24.75 students per class. Not only is that illegal (hence, seeking the waivers), it is almost impossible for a teacher to teach a class that large. Most "elite" private schools will have two teachers for 12-16 students. In fact, I remember one teacher telling me that she would rather have two teachers for 25 students than one teacher for 12 students since at that age there is always one child that needs special attention (bathroom issues, distracting other kids, kid is sick and needs to go to the nurse, etc.)
2) I think that it is wonderful that so many kids want to attend that school. That is great for the school and for the neighborhood.
3) there is a picture of portable buildings. How many portable buildings are used at Lakewood Elem? Hockaday, during construction used portable buildings, and I thought it was kinda awful. I understand with overcrowding why you might need them, but I am still not a fan. I think students, and parents, should take pride in their schools and I don't like seeing them. Not slamming Lakewood on the topic, drive by Bradfield and you will see a couple used at HPISD schools as well.
Joined the site just to participate in this thread. Got a kid in kindergarten at Lakewood Elementary. Got the letter from the principal referenced in the Advocate linked article. Not pleased. My guess is that many of the kindergarten classes have about 28 kids each. That's just a guess. Big picture is that there are WAY too many kindergarten kids at the school. From what I saw the school did a good job this past spring of getting parents to register all the kids who would be going there in the fall. They had to know of the overcrowding issue WAY before school started. The issues was not addressed and based upon the principal's letter a fix (more teachers or at least shuffling kids between the classes to equalize the number of kids per class) won't be coming any time soon. Maybe in January? The fix many never come as I assume is contemplating asking the State for a waiver of the student/teacher ratio limit.
3) there is a picture of portable buildings. How many portable buildings are used at Lakewood Elem? Hockaday, during construction used portable buildings, and I thought it was kinda awful. I understand with overcrowding why you might need them, but I am still not a fan. I think students, and parents, should take pride in their schools and I don't like seeing them. Not slamming Lakewood on the topic, drive by Bradfield and you will see a couple used at HPISD schools as well.
Yup we had them when I was at UP and again at McCulloch. It didn't really make any difference to any of the kids. I'm not quiet sure how having portable buildings correlates to not taking pride in your school though.
Yup we had them when I was at UP and again at McCulloch. It didn't really make any difference to any of the kids. I'm not quiet sure how having portable buildings correlates to not taking pride in your school though.
I think one can take pride in many different areas of school: 1) education you are receiving, 2) community spirit, 3) athletic accomplishments, and 4) school campus.
School campus is probably the least important, but I seem to recall Lakewooder posting recently the plans for the new IB center at WW. Obviously what happens in the school is 100x more important than what is on the outside, but kids take pride in how their school looks too. I still remember the first time I saw Plano High and its pond (25-30 years ago). It was ahead of the curve and very impressive at the time. St. Marks has an outstanding campus that all kids would be proud to be associated with. Allen has a football stadium and performance hall that cost a small fortune. Greenhill has a ton of land and has Peacocks walking around...
As for your personal opinion on the buildings in HPISD, your perspective is different than my experience. Based on my experience of living in the park cities, very few of the parents in HPISD are happy with portable buildings. When I lived there I would here comments like "my property taxes are X, but my kid is taught in a shack."
I think one can take pride in many different areas of school: 1) education you are receiving, 2) community spirit, 3) athletic accomplishments, and 4) school campus.
School campus is probably the least important, but I seem to recall Lakewooder posting recently the plans for the new IB center at WW. Obviously what happens in the school is 100x more important than what is on the outside, but kids take pride in how their school looks too. I still remember the first time I saw Plano High and its pond (25-30 years ago). It was ahead of the curve and very impressive at the time. St. Marks has an outstanding campus that all kids would be proud to be associated with. Allen has a football stadium and performance hall that cost a small fortune. Greenhill has a ton of land and has Peacocks walking around...
As for your personal opinion on the buildings in HPISD, your perspective is different than my experience. Based on my experience of living in the park cities, very few of the parents in HPISD are happy with portable buildings. When I lived there I would here comments like "my property taxes are X, but my kid is taught in a shack."
I think your last statement may be the group you were around. People complained more about paying those taxes and so much of it going to Robin Hood than a few portables from time to time. The "naive" new residents to HPISD might complain, but the ones that have been around for awhile know its a common trend. It has more to do with being land locked then not having the dollars to add on.
I will say that I've been quite confused this year seeing so many sings up to come support the Scots in their first football game. Back in my day(), you could hardly find a seat. The town just about shutdown on a home game night.
School campus is probably the least important, but I seem to recall Lakewooder posting recently the plans for the new IB center at WW. Obviously what happens in the school is 100x more important than what is on the outside, but kids take pride in how their school looks too. I still remember the first time I saw Plano High and its pond (25-30 years ago). It was ahead of the curve and very impressive at the time. St. Marks has an outstanding campus that all kids would be proud to be associated with. Allen has a football stadium and performance hall that cost a small fortune. Greenhill has a ton of land and has Peacocks walking around...
A lot of Plano West kids in my class were still jealous about the pond...we just have a fountain. Of course, now that the $25 million additions/renovations have finished up at West, we definitely have the nicer campus. Among other features, one of the lines in the cafeteria now serves slurpees and cappucinos to the kids.
But I digress. The point is, yes, I do think the campus does have some importance. A nice school will actually make the kids want to be there, and that in turn helps motivate them to pay attention, work hard, and ultimately be successful. The fact that I'm still very happy with how the Plano West project turned out, even though I have graduated, shows that it really is a big part of school pride.
I'm sorry for the parent who had a bad experience above. It's sad to see how schools have had to cope with funding issues over the last few years. I would hate to be a teacher trying to manage 28 kindergarteners...can you imagine the destruction that could go on there?
I think your last statement may be the group you were around. People complained more about paying those taxes and so much of it going to Robin Hood than a few portables from time to time. The "naive" new residents to HPISD might complain, but the ones that have been around for awhile know its a common trend. It has more to do with being land locked then not having the dollars to add on.
I will say that I've been quite confused this year seeing so many sings up to come support the Scots in their first football game. Back in my day(), you could hardly find a seat. The town just about shutdown on a home game night.
People certainly complained far more about Robin Hood than the portables, but I think the issues went hand and hand. Eliminate Robin Hood and you would eliminate the portables.
While living in HPISD, I was certainly impressed with Mad for Plaid. For those that don't know, the neighbors give directly to a tax exempt organization that then doles out monies to the school that cannot be recaptured by Robin Hood. For example, the money was used at Bradfield to pay for a Spanish teacher. Perhaps Lakewood can come up with a similar program to expand the school, hire more teachers, etc. There would be a whole layer of politics to deal with though.
People certainly complained far more about Robin Hood than the portables, but I think the issues went hand and hand. Eliminate Robin Hood and you would eliminate the portables.
While living in HPISD, I was certainly impressed with Mad for Plaid. For those that don't know, the neighbors give directly to a tax exempt organization that then doles out monies to the school that cannot be recaptured by Robin Hood. For example, the money was used at Bradfield to pay for a Spanish teacher. Perhaps Lakewood can come up with a similar program to expand the school, hire more teachers, etc. There would be a whole layer of politics to deal with though.
Absolutely. Having your own township has it's pluses for sure. I wonder how hard it would be to develop something like that in a struggling large school district.
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), you could hardly find a seat. The town just about shutdown on a home game night.
