What is the preferred alternative of toll opponents? (Dallas, Fort Worth: credit, house)

[Restrain]

First, stop diverting the highway funds for other items. A big chunk no longer goes to highways. Then see what we really need in highway funding.

[bluescreen73]

Originally Posted by pharpe

I'm fine with toll roads. Let those that use them pay for them. Why should everyone have to subsidize those that choose to commute 60 miles a day?

As I've pointed out countless times before, Public-Private Partnerships mean that you and I pay for toll road construction whether or not we ever drive on them. The state has the ability to loan the P3 consortium gas tax revenue to help build these toll roads, and taxpayers are the last in line to be paid back. It's corporate welfare at its finest.

[aggie972]

Originally Posted by Restrain

First, stop diverting the highway funds for other items. A big chunk no longer goes to highways. Then see what we really need in highway funding.

Good idea. Unfortunately, a lot of it is diverted for education, which is a bigger sacred cow than transportation. Any politician who tries your idea will be facing an attack ad along the lines of "Why does John Smith hate the children???"

[yukon]

Raise the vehicle registration fees so those who drive are the ones paying for the roads.

If I'm reading the info at the state website correctly, I move to Dallas, my initial car tag will be around $65-$70. If I move to Phoenix, my initial car tag will be almost $400. And I don't have an expensive car. I must admit, though, the roads in PHX are nice.

[bigdaddycool1111]

If they are going to charge people for fixing the roads, everyone should pay as much as they damage. Someone with a tiny fiat should not pay the same tax as someone who drives a massive Ford F-350. Having said that, I am ok with newly built roads having tolls until the debt is paid off. Once the debt is paid off, the toll should be reduced and it should not turn into a profit center.

[Transplanted99]

Originally Posted by bluescreen73

Once the road goes toll you never stop paying for it

Just want to know when the gas tax was last repealed?

When it comes to highways, a charge for those who uses them seems to be reasonable. Gas tax, as mentioned, is pretty inefficient means to do the same - aside from hitting those that don't use the highways in question, fuel efficiency mandates have meant that the revenues have not kept pace with the actual number of wheels on the road. Also, these funds are so tempting, politicians cannot help themselves dipping into them for other purposes, as mentioned above.

As for 75, which I presume inspired this thread, I would advocate eliminating the HOV (though we are users of that and it would hurt us personally) and replace with a toll lane, with the funds paying for adding another lane from 121 to LBJ. Seems that the growth will require that sooner than later.

Generally, the toll roads in the US are kept in better shape and meet the demand better than non-toll roads. NY/NJ seem to have higher rates that seem to get absorbed by unions, as I can tell (They ought to be able to adopt electronic means of detection and billing and save a bundle, otherwise).

BTW, check out other countries with tolls...ours are way cheaper in comparison! (But so is our gasoline tax.)

Anecdotally, having worked here in the 90's, 75 was always a bear, but the Dallas Toll way was a delight to travel...would regularly beat a workmate to 75/LBJ from downtown, as the toll road was relatively light traffic. Still remember construction on LBJ...rather surprised to see that LBJ is still under major construction almost 20 years later...meanwhile, moved to DFW in 2011 and find that George Bush toll road was completed from Firewheel Mall to I30 in less than a year! Impressive!

[Transplanted99]

Originally Posted by bigdaddycool1111

If they are going to charge people for fixing the roads, everyone should pay as much as they damage. Someone with a tiny fiat should not pay the same tax as someone who drives a massive Ford F-350. Having said that, I am ok with newly built roads having tolls until the debt is paid off. Once the debt is paid off, the toll should be reduced and it should not turn into a profit center.

I hear ya. But I don't think it could easily work that way. BTW, it is the semi trailers and dump trucks that do the most damage, not F350s.

Not sure on the economics on toll roads, but if we get them build more quickly, to a higher quality level (seems to be my observation) as a toll, that we could not allow a profit incentive for later on (otherwise, why bother?).

I see your point though, as it essentially becomes a utility model then.

[TX75007]

Originally Posted by bluescreen73

Today's toll roads are long-term investment schemes for the private sector subsidized by taxpayer dollars. Once the road goes toll you never stop paying for it, and the profiteers use revenue from existing toll roads to build even MORE toll roads. As an added bonus, if the toll barons can't come up with all the necessary capital for the project, no problem, the state will loan them your gas tax dollars to bridge shortfalls and the state will generously allow you, the taxpayer, to be last in line when it comes to getting your money back.

Prove this assertion. It is false.

[TX75007]

Originally Posted by bigdaddycool1111

If they are going to charge people for fixing the roads, everyone should pay as much as they damage. Someone with a tiny fiat should not pay the same tax as someone who drives a massive Ford F-350. Having said that, I am ok with newly built roads having tolls until the debt is paid off. Once the debt is paid off, the toll should be reduced and it should not turn into a profit center.

Last time I checked the tolls for heavy trucks was 7 times that for cars.

[bluescreen73]

Originally Posted by TX75007

Prove this assertion. It is false.

This is false?

Texas Transportation Commissioners approve loan to NTTA, but attach terms that could sink deal | Dallas Morning News

$4.1 billion in gas tax revenue "loaned" to the NTTA for 161. NTTA has/had 10 YEARS to pay back the state.

Or how about the NTTA raising tolls on DNT and PGBT to subsidize construction of the CTP?

The Texas GOP still supports toll roads, but only if they're not subsidized with taxpayer dollars.

http://www.star-telegram.com/2014/07...toll.html?rh=1