Crunchy young family moving to Plano, TX (Dallas, McKinney: best neighborhoods, 2014)

[keribeth818]

I think everyone here has been on target. You will not find what you are looking for in Plano. You will have access to organic produce and farmers markets, but you will spend 20-30 minutes in your car getting to them. There are plenty of sidewalks but you will be the only one walking on them, other than around your immediate neighborhood where you will find plenty of folks out strolling or jogging for exercise. It took me a long time to adjust to the lifestyle (former subway and/or walking commuter). If jobs lead you here, there are plenty of positives here that you don't get where you are. But you have to be open to them or you will be miserable.

[LeagleEagleDFW]

Originally Posted by EDS_

As if that's an overall negative. I mean really.

It kind of is, given that overall, the East coast tends to be wealthier, healthier, and better educated.

[TheOverdog]

Last month there was a day when the temp in the shade was 62F and I measured temp in the sun to be 116F.

116F in late November/mid December? Really? Come on.

the East coast tends to be wealthier, healthier, and better educated.

Nothing about that should be surprising. Plano has only really existed since around 1970. Before that it had less than 3000 residents. It takes money and time to build up wealth and education, since one of the criteria of 'good secondary schools' is that they have been around for a long time.

[EDS_]

Originally Posted by LeagleEagleDFW

It kind of is, given that overall, the East coast tends to be wealthier, healthier, and better educated.

A. Wealth/incomes

The East Coast tends to be wealthier than Texas belief is broadly held and almost completely wrong. People simply must grasp the difference between real and nominal money and take note of tax burdens.


Across all large cities Dallas has the 12th highest real per capita GDP on Earth.

Plano is always on the top few medium sized cities most affluent list. Often it's number one. And that is using nominal dollars. In real dollar terms no other medium sized city on either coast is even in the conversation.

Southlake usually makes similar lists for cities its size. Frisco too.

Everyone should read the below to understand why nominal income analysis across The US is a really dumb way to look at things. Read - even before taxes real median household income in Zapata County TX, down in The Valley, is higher than the same in New York County New York. Calculate the tax differences and there is no comparison.

Cost of Living Can Significantly Distort Median Household Income



I haven't done the analysis in several years but at one time net of taxes and cost of living differences the median earning household in Alabama was better off than its counterpart in New York in real terms. I suspect that's still the case.

Closer to home. I like to use a very simply formula for comparing cost of living differences between two cities (the COL data is actually an indexed average, from the C2ER people again, of all big cities in a state and the formula is applied to that data) and then I add in tax differences as the indexed data does not account for state imposed tax burdens.

CA vs. Texas
100(131.9 - 92.9/92.9)= 41.98% COL advantage for TX and a 3.1% tax advantage for TX = 45.08%. So to compare CA nominal median household incomes to TX we must adjust TX incomes upward by the calculated figure.
92.9 COL index for Texas big cities
131.9 COL index for CA big cities
100 COL index for the average big city

TX MHI - $49,392 x 1.45 = $71,618

*$49,392 in TX has the same buying power as $71,618 in CA. MHI in CA is $57,287. So the MHI earner in TX is far better off than his counter part in CA.
*This is why right at 34% of all welfare recipients in the country live in CA and why CA's real poverty rate is over 23%


NY vs. TX
100(131.6 - 92.9/92.9) = 41.66% COL advantage for Texas + 4.9% TX tax advantage = 46.56%
TX MHI - $49,392 x 1.46 = $72,112
*Again, $49,392 in TX has the same buying power as $72,112 in NY. MHI in NY is $55,246. So the MHI income earner in TX is even more better off against his NY counterpart than his CA counterpart.


MA vs. TX
100(124.7 - 92.9/92.9) = 34.23% + 2.5% TX tax advantage = 36.73%
TX MHI - $49,392 x 1.36 = $67,173
*$49,392 in TX has the same buying power as $67,173 in MA. MHI in MA is $62,859 so again Texans have the advantage.


CT vs. TX
100(145 - 92.9/92.9) = 56.08% + 4.4% TX tax advantage = 60.48%
TX MHI - $49,392 x 1.60 = $79,027
*$49,392 in TX has the same buying power as $79,027 in CT. MHI in CT is $65,753 again Texans have the advantage.


DC (including NOVA) vs. TX
100(138.8 - 92.9/92.9) = 49.40% + 1.4% tax advantage = 50.8%
TX MHI - $49,392 x 1.50 = $74,088
*$49,392 in TX has the same buying power as $74,088 in DC/NOVA. MHI in DC/NOVA is $63,124. Again Texans have the advantage.


North Carolina vs. Texas
100(96.5 - 92.9/92.9) = 3.88% + 1.9% TX tax advantage = 5.78%
TX MHI - $49,392 x 1.05 = $51,861
*$49,392 in TX has the same buying power as $51,861 in NC. MHI in NC is $43,916. Texans have a massive advantage.


Georgia vs. TX
100(94.4 - 92.9/92.9) = 1.61% + 0.9% TX tax advantage = 2.51%
TX MHI - $49,392 x 1.02 = $50,379
*$49,392 in TX has the same buying power as $50,379 in GA. MHI in GA is $46,007. Texans have the advantage.


FL vs. TX
100(99.3 - 92.9/92.9) = 6.89% = 1.3% TX tax advantage = 8.95%
TX MHI - $49,392 x 1.09 = $53,837
*$49,392 in TX has the same buying power as $53,837 in FL. MHI in FL is $44,299. Texans have big advantage.


New York vs. Alabama
100(131.6 - 92/92) = 43.04% + 4.5% AL tax advantage = 47.54%
Alabama MHI - $41,415 x 1.4754 = $61,103. MHI in New York is $55,246. So Alabama still has an real MHI income advantage over New York.



Sources:


https://www.c2er.org/

C2ER out of Arlington VA compiles its own COL data and then issues it in indexed or raw form. They've been around for decades and it's an exceptionally respected organization. The publish the formula is used as well. Although it's a simple and broadly used statistical technique. And the index numbers work well as they only cover large cities - not little rural towns or tiny high priced vacation hideaways that might skew the numbers.

Annual State-Local Tax Burden Ranking FY 2011 | Tax Foundation
The state imposed tax burden information is from The Tax Foundation. I simply subtracted TX' 7.9% state burden from the other state's burden - examples NY = 12.8%, CA = 11.2%, CT = 12.3% etc.

List of U.S. states by income - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
MHI is from wiki but it's Census and USBL data.
MHI is the preferred metric for these types of analysis.


B. Health
The sad truth is Texas has very large historical minority populations. Unfortunately these folks tend to be less healthy than others. That one is going to take generations to solve.


C. Education
Some of the same elements impacting health are at play in our educational shortcomings. However, at the other end of the range TX' National Merit Semi-Finalist cut-off score last years was 219. That's equal to New York and only surpassed by six states.

Texas has 4 Tier One research universities: UT, TAMU, Rice and The University of Houston. Within 5/7 years I'd expect to see that number at 7 (UTD, UT-SA, Texas Tech) and in 15 or so years 8 or 9 ( from UT-Arlington, UNT, Baylor, UTEP or maybe SMU). All of those in the running are Tier 2 research universities now.
Texas has the money and I think the will to bump the Tier 1 total.

CA has 11(?) and that number is capped indirectly by state law.
NY has 8, PA has 4, MA has 6 and these states of course had at least 150/200 year head starts on Texas. The rumor is NY is likely to be at 6 next time around.

[EDS_]

Originally Posted by TheOverdog

116F in late November/mid December? Really? Come on.



Nothing about that should be surprising. Plano has only really existed since around 1970. Before that it had less than 3000 residents. It takes money and time to build up wealth and education, since one of the criteria of 'good secondary schools' is that they have been around for a long time.

So far as Plano goes I'd bet the odds are better than 50/50 on a real income basis Plano is the wealthiest city over 200,000 people in this Hemisphere.

ETA - Actually I just stumbled upon Plano income and COL metrics - it's Plano by a mile compared to just about anywhere else - anywhere. I'll post it later.

[alastrian2]

Come on over to North Oak Cliff. You'll find a good blend of crunchy urbanists building bike paths, walkable streets and community, one CSA, block party and drag queen at a time. The only drawback is school after 5th grade as someone else mentioned. You don't have to worry about it if your kid is artsy though because, Greiner Exploratory Arts Academy (middle school) is in in the neighborhood and is a top feeder to Booker T Washington Arts Magnet, one of best schools in the country.

[taroberts]

Originally Posted by TurtleCreek80

Plano is a great suburb- safe, great schools, very diverse, lots of jobs, tons of shopping. But it is flat, architecturally dull, and full generic "suburbia usa" subdivisions separated by 6-8 lane roads.

I tend to agree with the other posters, you'll probably be happier if you stay where you are or move somewhere more outdoorsy/crunchy like Portland, Austin, etc. There are crunchy "pockets" in Dallas, but the city & it's suburbs as a whole are the antithesis of crunchy....which I guess makes Dallas "smooth"?

This is so spot on. I don't say that as a bad thing. I love Plano and this is what I love about it.

[ChristieP]

Originally Posted by alastrian2

Come on over to North Oak Cliff. You'll find a good blend of crunchy urbanists building bike paths, walkable streets and community, one CSA, block party and drag queen at a time. The only drawback is school after 5th grade as someone else mentioned. You don't have to worry about it if your kid is artsy though because, Greiner Exploratory Arts Academy (middle school) is in in the neighborhood and is a top feeder to Booker T Washington Arts Magnet, one of best schools in the country.

And you will spend an hour in the car each way, and $5 a day in tolls, commuting back and forth to Plano on the DNT.

[TurtleCreek80]

Originally Posted by ChristieP

And you will spend an hour in the car each way, and $5 a day in tolls, commuting back and forth to Plano on the DNT.

Well, IMO that's better than living in Plano if they're going to be miserable there! I'm all for short commutes but sometimes they're unavoidable.

[bluescreen73]

The folks are nice for the most part, but you're gonna find the metroplex isn't very outdoorsy and the weather for 1/4-1/3 of the year doesn't lend itself to spending a great deal of time outside.

Wish ya the best. As others have said you're moving to an area of the country that's fairly diametrically opposed to your lifestyle. DFW isn't crunchy. With an obesity rate near 28% I'd call it "fluffy."