Alternatives to Greenhill and St Marks in Dallas (Plano, Frisco: rent, buy)

[UnfairPark]

In this age of google and media, does it really matter what me, you or schools are teaching about sex or evolution or anything? Youth has access to information and all sort of perspectives, they are going to make up their own mind. Brainwashing by parents or school or anyone else has less impact than it used to.

[Waterdragon8212]

Originally Posted by UnfairPark

In this age of google and media, does it really matter what me, you or schools are teaching about sex or evolution or anything? Youth has access to information and all sort of perspectives, they are going to make up their own mind. Brainwashing by parents or school or anyone else has less impact than it used to.

In short, yes. For years, research has suggested kids are influenced more by peers than parents. However, internet usage (and addiction) are correlated with poorer parental attachment. If you consider those variables together, kids with secure attachments who respect their parents are less likely to defer to the internet for "education" - not to mention, they (hopefully!) have parents that monitor their online usage (not a failsafe, but at least a safe guard.) And if the school is preaching the same thing to all students (and likely, the parents that send their kids to these schools are reinforcing those notions), the peer influence as a whole is more likely to be affected by "brainwashing" as you call it. So, if what the parents are teaching impacts internet usage and what the parents/schools are teaching affects general peer influence, then what we teach our kids and what the school teaches our kids does matter. A lot. Does the internet open up Pandora's box in terms of what kids have access to? Absolutely. But the parental/school/peer influence still matters greatly.

Just think about the private school stereotypes (I'm not saying these are accurate, but there's a reason why they are propagated and why parents choose the schools they do.) There are parents that won't send their sons to St. Mark's because it's a "boys club", while other parents won't send their kids to Greenhill because it "too liberal." Anti-ESD people think the school promotes "materialism", while anti-Cistercian parents think the school churns out "socially awkward" boys. Public schools aren't immune. Just look through the various posts about Highland Park and Plano ("I would never move to the bubble" vs. "Plano West feeders are so uber-competitive they give kids emotional and mental disorders.") These stereotypes (while sometimes false and frequently controversial) exist because of peer influence and school influence. And parents choose schools according to those factors. So they are a part of the equation. Personally, I would never consider sending my kids to a school that actively denied evolution and climate change. But if I did, I would be looking to find other parents that shared my beliefs. When insular communities develop, kids are less likely to go looking for alternative solutions until they are living outside those environments. They may experiment and learn things from the internet, but they aren't going to publicly challenge their peer group and parental world views - mostly because "group think" is encouraged and teens are particularly susceptible to following the crowd. It's not their fault - their frontal lobes aren't developed yet and fitting in is typically valued over taking a stand.

[tcualum]

Originally Posted by UnfairPark

In this age of google and media, does it really matter what me, you or schools are teaching about sex or evolution or anything? Youth has access to information and all sort of perspectives, they are going to make up their own mind. Brainwashing by parents or school or anyone else has less impact than it used to.

It's not necessarily specifically about what they teach but their answers to those questions will give you information regarding what sort of school they are. Are they conservative or liberal? Are they open to student inquiry and debate or do they expect students to just listen and obey without asking?

[stan4]

Originally Posted by UnfairPark

In this age of google and media, does it really matter what me, you or schools are teaching about sex or evolution or anything? Youth has access to information and all sort of perspectives, they are going to make up their own mind. Brainwashing by parents or school or anyone else has less impact than it used to.

What the above posters said.

Also, google and the media come in later in age (at least for my kids - they don't get internet)...brainwashing starts easily around 3 or 4 years old. The adults at school are trustworthy authority figures in their mind.

But (as I've said before) that's not even the point. The idea that they quash any discussion before you set foot in that environment begs the question...what else are they just refusing to have healthy intellectual debate about?
I'd be just as upset about it if a school refused to discuss or learn about religions/cultures at all. We can't pretend things don't exist to suit our agenda. That doesn't make anyone smarter.

[numbersguy100]

We can debate this without agreement forever without getting anywhere. But OP specifically asked about schools that are secular or don't require mass. Therefore, the subsequent recommendation of Prestonwood Christian Academy as an option was ill-fitting.

I think people are potentially being too hard on OP about applying only to Greenhill and St Marks, given what we have learned subsequent to the initial post. Are any of the other coed or all boys schools secular? I assume that is the only possible reason not I apply somewhere like ESD or Parish as a backup. Perhaps OP was unaware of how mild the religious aspect to those schools is, if you want it to be. I only wish OP had done the research before application time rather than in late March when they are basically scrambling for openings. Am I missing any other quality secular schools in N Dallas?

[Waterdragon8212]

Originally Posted by numbersguy100

We can debate this without agreement forever without getting anywhere. But OP specifically asked about schools that are secular or don't require mass. Therefore, the subsequent recommendation of Prestonwood Christian Academy as an option was ill-fitting.

I think people are potentially being too hard on OP about applying only to Greenhill and St Marks, given what we have learned subsequent to the initial post. Are any of the other coed or all boys schools secular? I assume that is the only possible reason not I apply somewhere like ESD or Parish as a backup. Perhaps OP was unaware of how mild the religious aspect to those schools is, if you want it to be. I only wish OP had done the research before application time rather than in late March when they are basically scrambling for openings. Am I missing any other quality secular schools in N Dallas?

The only truly secular schools that most people would consider worth the money around here are Hockaday and Greenhill. Even St. Mark's was born out of an Episcopalian tradition and has chapel - you can say it's interfaith/non-sectarian all you want, but it's still called "chapel" and designed for religious discourse.

Hockaday - Secular
Greenhill - Secular
St. Mark's - very vaguely and historically Episcopal/Christian, promotes interfaith religious dialogue
ESD/Parish - both subtly Episcopalian, kids from many different faiths attend
Jesuit/Cistercian/Ursuline/Bishop Lynch/Bishop Dunne/POP/JPII/various other - Catholic, accept non-Catholics

All of the other schools TC80 mentioned are either: a) associated with a faith or church, b) Montessori, or c) Lakehill (which is secular, but you'll find varying opinions of it scattered throughout city data.) There are various smaller schools around that are secular (Fusion, The Alexander School, The Einstein school, etc.) but these are not typically thought of as being in the same league as the other Dallas privates.

For some people, mild religious instruction/discourse isn't a big deal - especially if the academics seem worth it. For others, it is a deal breaker. To each their own, but it's unfortunate that the families who want an entirely secular and private educational environment have only a few to pick from.

[UnfairPark]

I guess without religious indoctrination, it is rather hard to sell your business plan to parents in good public districts. They don't see much value in spending several thousand dollars per kid per year for 13 years on something they can get for free at a school in their own neighborhood. Most Highland Park parents can afford private education but they don't need to. For affluent Dallas ISD parents, it's a necessity.

[tcualum]

I don't know. Fort Worth which is smaller has 3 excellent k-8 secular options (not including Montessori schools and Oakridge in Arlington) and it's much smaller than Dallas.

[BLDSoon]

Well...we are in the bible belt so the lack of secular private schools (and the abundance of religious ones) shouldn't really be all that shocking compared to, say, the northeast.

[Vicman]

Secular private schools have opened even in some suburbs known for good public schools. Some examples from the Houston area: In The Woodlands, Texas the John Cooper School, an exclusive private school, has K-12. It's in the attendance zones of well-reputed schools. There was also a big Catholic high school, Saint John XXIII High School, as well as the British International School that opened in the Katy school district.

Having said that I do agree that it is easier to sell private schools to wealthier parents in school districts with higher numbers of low income students (whether the public schools actually perform poorly/have safety issues or whether the wealthier parents are simply uncomfortable with the large number of low income students).

Originally Posted by UnfairPark

I guess without religious indoctrination, it is rather hard to sell your business plan to parents in good public districts. They don't see much value in spending several thousand dollars per kid per year for 13 years on something they can get for free at a school in their own neighborhood. Most Highland Park parents can afford private education but they don't need to. For affluent Dallas ISD parents, it's a necessity.