03-03-2010, 11:23 AM
7 posts, read
21,215 times
Reputation: 11
Hi folks,
I'm really hoping that some seasoned property investors on this board can help me out here...
I'm considering purchasing my 1st rental property in the DFW area. At this stage, it looks like it will be a single family home or duplex (aiming for around $150k sale price and $1,500 monthly rental rate). Now, the tricky thing is that I'm out of state and will need to "manage" the property remotely. This is of course impossible without hiring a property management company which charges around 10% of the rental income.
I've done the math, and it seems doable, even if I have to pay the 10% pmc fee. But I do realize that things can go wrong. And it would be especially difficult to deal with issues if I'm not physically there. I'm also completely new at this, so I would be placing a lot of trust in the property management company.
In your opinion, does it even make sense for me to go through with this idea? Or do you think there would be too many potential issues which will make this kind of out-of-state investment a losing proposition? Also, any tips on finding a good property mgmt company in DFW would be much appreciated.
Thanks!
03-03-2010, 11:52 AM
13,194 posts, read
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Reputation: 13142
Quite honestly, terrible idea. Because it is so cheap to buy in DFW, the rental prices are driven down.
I live in an approx $150k condo in Uptown (very desirable area) and my PITI is approx $1350/mo. Rental prices for comp unts in my building are $1100-1300.
Taking into account upkeep & maintenance (plus any HOA dues, if relevant) AND 10% property management fees, it would be nearly impossible to generate positive cash flow.
03-03-2010, 12:41 PM
7 posts, read
21,215 times
Reputation: 11
The properties I'm considering do not have HOA. I do agree that HOA would really kill any profit I have. I know it's relatively cheap to buy in DFW, but don't you think there will always be renter? Not everyone can afford the down payment for a house.
Would love to hear from other investors. What do you think? Should I take the plunge and try investing in DFW even though I'm 1000+ miles away?
03-03-2010, 04:52 PM
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Reputation: 707
I've bought, managed, and sold a few duplexes over the past 15 years, and if you look at the mortgage, taxes and insurance on the property and then look at how much you will have to pay a real estate manager to manage the property (because you're remote) as well as the cost of contractors to make repairs... I don't think you're going to see much profit (if any) from the investment. Also, consider that even with the best screening, you will occasionally get a bad tenant--and then there's another $1200+ to pay to get the place back in shape (repainting walls, replacing carpets, damaged tiles, or hammer-chipped sinks (if they're mad), etc.) for the next renter.
Normally, in a strong rental market, you would be able to request the $1200 as a security deposit, but in this market, cheap rents abound and people will look elsewhere if you try to charge deposits that high. So, where will you make your money? Through the property value increasing over time? The market is mostly flat. Values are even dropping slightly (although nowhere nearly as bad as Vegas, Miami, and other places). I sold my last duplex as the market appeared to begin heading south. I won't buy another one for quite a while (and I live in the DFW metroplex). I would never manage something 1000 miles away unless there was a lot of profit to be had.
03-03-2010, 06:32 PM
Location: DFW
40,952 posts, read
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Reputation: 55003
You don't want to be a long distance landlord, find something in your hometown and make it work there as your 1st one. If you were seasoned I might say different but probably not.
03-03-2010, 07:52 PM
Location: Dallas/Fort Worth, Texas
4,207 posts, read
15,252,969 times
Reputation: 2720
Buying a home at 150K and renting for 1500 is very unlikely going to happen unless it's a foreclosure and you have to fix it up. You could do 175K and rent at 1500. Yes there will always be a rental market especially with people that lost their homes to foreclosures and need to go to a lower monthly payment. It's difficult to go back to apartment life.
If you do pursue this, you want to get a home warranty on the house for about $350 a year. This covers a lot of repairs for a $60 service fee. I have it on all the rentals and it pays for itself year after year.
Of course, if you are able to get this scenario on a home in your market, it would be better.
Naima
03-04-2010, 12:02 PM
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Reputation: 6376
I wouldn't buy a property more than 10 minutes from where I live, but that's just me...
03-04-2010, 07:57 PM
Location: Santaluz - San Diego, CA
4,498 posts, read
9,381,990 times
Reputation: 2015
Follow the advice of these posters.
Take it from me. I know. I own several rental properties in various places around the world and unless you have a VERY GOOD property manager you are totally lost. Even when you do have a good property manager you can have issues/problems.
You're not going to make much money when all is said and done in the DFW area. I've already looked at the numbers.
A rental property has tons of potential problems. I sold off many of the properties I rent out where I don't live unless I have family that I can trust 100% to manage.
I wouldn't trust anyone except family or life long friends.
Also, if you have no experience in rental properties make sure you make a detailed spreadsheet with all possible expenses including insurance, property taxes, rental taxes, income tax, utilities, maintenance and upkeep of the house, factor in things like possible vandalism or break ins.
You can do well with rental properties if you really really know what you are doing. But you can also have tons of nightmares and problems if you live 1,500 miles away.
Even when you live in the same city it can be a nightmare. I own 10 properties in the city where I live and typically there is sometimes issues that come up whether with plumbing, electrical, gas, water, etc.
I wouldn't recommend it unless you have someone totally dependable in that city. What happens if you have some dispute with your property manager and then have to go back and forth spending money on plane tickets, lost time from work, etc.
Really think it through before you decide to go for it.
03-05-2010, 05:48 AM
Location: DFW
40,952 posts, read
49,166,535 times
Reputation: 55003
Early retirement sounds like a wise person. There will times you will get calls that require you to immediately go to they house for an emergency. There will be issues that require immediate attention and no matter how good the management company is, it will still require you to take care of quickly.
03-05-2010, 06:36 AM
Location: Santaluz - San Diego, CA
4,498 posts, read
9,381,990 times
Reputation: 2015
Rakin,
You make an excellent point about the emergencies in the middle of the night. Even if you have someone dependable, you will find that many times they will have other priorities maybe before your house.
Personal problems, medical emergencies, their kids school recital that they won't miss, etc. I've seen it all in my years owning rental properties.
What I've done, even in the city where I live is had to hire someone and pay them a salary only to deal with emergencies 24/7 per day. I pay them to handle problems no matter what time it is day or night. You will find that if a problem isn't taken care of immediately the tenant could have grounds to move/leave as they could say a situation was unsafe and it could get costly with legal bills dealing with them.
The rental market for being 1,500 miles away isn't for the faint of heart. I don't want to give you the wrong idea. I'm not saying it's impossible because it's not. It can be done if you have a totally 100% trustworthy property manager. But it sounds like you don't personally know anyone in the DFW area.
If you decide to ignore our advice, I'd recommend that you really plan things out well and have back up plans. I'd also recommend that you actually spend a lot of time going to Dallas and interviewing the property management companies in detail. Go see their office, meet them, shake their hands and see some of their properties they manage and see what condition they are in.
Ask to talk to some of their current clients and get references. See how long they have been in business. I've found that many people can make a flashy website that looks professional and polished but it's another to see if they actually have an office and running legally. See if they are incorporated and operating legally, etc.
Check if they have any complaints lodged with the Better Business Bureau or local Chamber of Commerce. See how long they have been in business. Ask to see copies of a monthly expense sheet. Go meet their employees.
Your most important person will be your property manager. So spend the most time finding at least 2 good companies so you have a back up company if things go wrong with the 1st company.
But I can't emphasize enough that you put all your expenses in a spreadsheet because many people are surprised at just how many expenses come up in rental properties. And it's impossible to calculate your potential rate of return without inputting ALL expenses and potential expenses. Make sure you include applicable city, state and federal taxes that maybe associated with the rental income and also property taxes.
Another good idea when it's not being rented if you have high speed internet is you can buy a Panasonic camera that is easy to hook up and you can monitor when people come in and out of the house. I did this in one of my rental properties in another country and I was surprised to see the property manager using my apartment and sleeping in it! Remember, when you are 1,500 miles away you don't know what they could be doing. Parties, etc.
http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-Remo...7797033&sr=8-3
Also, another really cool thing you can get is a Schlage electronic keypad for your door. There is one where you can monitor whenever people enter the house. You will find things like this really convenient and help keep your manager "honest".
http://www.amazon.com/Schlage-Wirele...bxgy_hi_text_c
Again, I'm not saying you can't make money in rental properties. You certainly can. I've made quite a bit of money on rental properties I own over the years but it's not as easy as you would think.
Good luck.
Last edited by earlyretirement; 03-05-2010 at 06:52 AM ..
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People in Group quarters - Other types of correctional institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Nursing homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards, hospices, and schools for the handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards and hospices for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospices or homes for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Military hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Other hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals or wards for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Mental (Psychiatric) hospitals or wards (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the deaf (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the blind (%)
People in Group quarters - Orthopedic wards and institutions for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in general hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in military hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Juvenile institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Long-term care (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for abused, dependent, and neglected children (%)
People in Group quarters - Residential treatment centers for emotionally disturbed children (%)
People in Group quarters - Training schools for juvenile delinquents (%)
People in Group quarters - Short-term care, detention or diagnostic centers for delinquent children (%)
People in Group quarters - Type of juvenile institution unknown (%)
People in Group quarters - Noninstitutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - College dormitories (includes college quarters off campus) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - On base (%)
People in Group quarters - Barracks, unaccompanied personnel housing (UPH), (Enlisted/Officer), ;and similar group living quarters for military personnel (%)
People in Group quarters - Transient quarters for temporary residents (%)
People in Group quarters - Military ships (%)
People in Group quarters - Group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes or halfway houses for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Other group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Religious group quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - Dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Agriculture workers' dormitories on farms (%)
People in Group quarters - Job Corps and vocational training facilities (%)
People in Group quarters - Other workers' dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Crews of maritime vessels (%)
People in Group quarters - Other nonhousehold living situations (%)
People in Group quarters - Other noninstitutional group quarters (%)
Residents speaking English at home (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking other language at home (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Foreign born (%)
Class of Workers - Employee of private company (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed in own incorporated business (%)
Class of Workers - Private not-for-profit wage and salary workers (%)
Class of Workers - Local government workers (%)
Class of Workers - State government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Federal government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed workers in own not incorporated business and Unpaid family workers (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - No fuel used (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - No fuel used (%)
Armed forces status - In Armed Forces (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Veteran (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Nonveteran (%)
Fatal accidents locations in years 2005-2021
Fatal accidents locations in 2005
Fatal accidents locations in 2006
Fatal accidents locations in 2007
Fatal accidents locations in 2008
Fatal accidents locations in 2009
Fatal accidents locations in 2010
Fatal accidents locations in 2011
Fatal accidents locations in 2012
Fatal accidents locations in 2013
Fatal accidents locations in 2014
Fatal accidents locations in 2015
Fatal accidents locations in 2016
Fatal accidents locations in 2017
Fatal accidents locations in 2018
Fatal accidents locations in 2019
Fatal accidents locations in 2020
Fatal accidents locations in 2021
Alcohol use - People drinking some alcohol every month (%)
Alcohol use - People not drinking at all (%)
Alcohol use - Average days/month drinking alcohol
Alcohol use - Average drinks/week
Alcohol use - Average days/year people drink much
Audiometry - Average condition of hearing (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear a whisper from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear normal voice from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - Ears ringing, roaring, buzzing (%)
Audiometry - Had a job exposure to loud noise (%)
Audiometry - Had off-work exposure to loud noise (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high blood pressure (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Checking blood pressure at home (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Frequently checking blood cholesterol (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high cholesterol level (%)
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at supermarket/grocery store
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at other stores
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on eating out
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on carryout/delivered foods
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at supermarket/grocery store (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at other stores (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on eating out (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on carryout/delivered foods (%)
Current Health Status - General health condition (%)
Current Health Status - Blood donors (%)
Current Health Status - Has blood ever tested for HIV virus (%)
Current Health Status - Left-handed people (%)
Dermatology - People using sunscreen (%)
Diabetes - Diabetics (%)
Diabetes - Had a blood test for high blood sugar (%)
Diabetes - People taking insulin (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Diet health (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Milk product consumption (# of products/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals not home prepared (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals from fast food or pizza place (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Ready-to-eat foods (#/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Frozen meals/pizza (#/month)
Drug Use - People that ever used marijuana or hashish (%)
Drug Use - Ever used hard drugs (%)
Drug Use - Ever used any form of cocaine (%)
Drug Use - Ever used heroin (%)
Drug Use - Ever used methamphetamine (%)
Health Insurance - People covered by health insurance (%)
Kidney Conditions-Urology - Avg. # of times urinating at night
Medical Conditions - People with asthma (%)
Medical Conditions - People with anemia (%)
Medical Conditions - People with psoriasis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with overweight (%)
Medical Conditions - Elderly people having difficulties in thinking or remembering (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever received blood transfusion (%)
Medical Conditions - People having trouble seeing even with glass/contacts (%)
Medical Conditions - People with arthritis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with gout (%)
Medical Conditions - People with congestive heart failure (%)
Medical Conditions - People with coronary heart disease (%)
Medical Conditions - People with angina pectoris (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had heart attack (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had stroke (%)
Medical Conditions - People with emphysema (%)
Medical Conditions - People with thyroid problem (%)
Medical Conditions - People with chronic bronchitis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with any liver condition (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had cancer or malignancy (%)
Mental Health - People who have little interest in doing things (%)
Mental Health - People feeling down, depressed, or hopeless (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble sleeping or sleeping too much (%)
Mental Health - People feeling tired or having little energy (%)
Mental Health - People with poor appetite or overeating (%)
Mental Health - People feeling bad about themself (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble concentrating on things (%)
Mental Health - People moving or speaking slowly or too fast (%)
Mental Health - People having thoughts they would be better off dead (%)
Oral Health - Average years since last visit a dentist
Oral Health - People embarrassed because of mouth (%)
Oral Health - People with gum disease (%)
Oral Health - General health of teeth and gums (%)
Oral Health - Average days a week using dental floss/device
Oral Health - Average days a week using mouthwash for dental problem
Oral Health - Average number of teeth
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to control insects (%)
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to kill weeds (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People walking or bicycling (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - Average hours a day doing sedentary activities
Physical Activity - Average hours a day watching TV or videos
Physical Activity - Average hours a day using computer
Physical Functioning - People having limitations keeping them from working (%)
Physical Functioning - People limited in amount of work they can do (%)
Physical Functioning - People that need special equipment to walk (%)
Physical Functioning - People experiencing confusion/memory problems (%)
Physical Functioning - People requiring special healthcare equipment (%)
Prescription Medications - Average number of prescription medicines taking
Preventive Aspirin Use - Adults 40+ taking low-dose aspirin (%)
Reproductive Health - Vaginal deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Cesarean deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Deliveries resulted in a live birth (%)
Reproductive Health - Pregnancies resulted in a delivery (%)
Reproductive Health - Women breastfeeding newborns (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had a hysterectomy (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had both ovaries removed (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever taken birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women taking birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used Depo-Provera or injectables (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used female hormones (%)
Sexual Behavior - People 18+ that ever had sex (vaginal, anal, or oral) (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had anal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had any sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had anal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had any kind of sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first had sex
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female vaginal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a woman (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of woman performed oral sex on in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male anal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a man (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male oral sex partners in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - People using protection when performing oral sex (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of times people have vaginal or anal sex a year
Sexual Behavior - People having sex without condom (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male vaginal sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Circumcised males 18+ (%)
Sleep Disorders - Average hours sleeping at night
Sleep Disorders - People that has trouble sleeping (%)
Smoking-Cigarette Use - People smoking cigarettes (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with smell (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with taste (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had wisdom teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had tonsils teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a loss of consciousness because of a head injury (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a broken nose or other serious injury to face or skull (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had two or more sinus infections (%)
Weight - Average height (inches)
Weight - Average weight (pounds)
Weight - Average BMI
Weight - People that are obese (%)
Weight - People that ever were obese (%)
Weight - People trying to lose weight (%)