The Disaster That is HB 2439...Concerns and Consequences (Dallas, Combine: tornado, live in)

[EDS_]

Originally Posted by EcoDeb

Brick veneer is no different than vinyl???? PLEASE!!!!!

Yea no. It's way different.

[EDS_]

Originally Posted by wheelsup

You are incorrect on brick. It will transfer heat more efficiently than vinyl which is a huge consideration for Texas. Veneers are a better choice because the house will be insulated more effectively. A straight up brick wall has almost no r value (R1).

This legislation is about the appearance of homes not all the other issues concocted by people on this thread. Building codes are building codes, this wasn't about making better homes it was allowing use of materials other than specifically mandated products, limiting choice and competition.

Softball size hail will have a much bigger impact (pun intended) on the roof and subsequent water damage than your siding.

Let it go. Brick + air gap beats vinyl by miles.

[Sunbather]

Yes. And again, contemporary brick veneers that are adhered are different than a full wythe non-structural brick that is on my 1949 ranch and many other older homes here. While both veneers, they are not the same. Additionally, the sound dampening is also better with brick. And regarding thermal properties, it is not all about the R-value. The R value of a single wythe of brick is not that much different than wood siding or vinyl siding. But has more thermal mass, which does also factor in. All being said, vinyl is probably my least favorite residential choice.

[wheelsup]

Originally Posted by EDS_

Let it go. Brick + air gap beats vinyl by miles.

Physics says it does not (do a manual J calc).

To be fair it's almost zero difference, the key is what sort and how much insulation is behind the actual choice of siding. A brick wall with R20 insulation will beat a vinyl clad house with R10. Vinyl siding has an air gap behind it just by the very nature of install, it kinda "floats" off the sheathing.

And again this is still not the reason for why the bill was signed.

[EDS_]

Originally Posted by wheelsup

Physics says it does not (do a manual J calc).

To be fair it's almost zero difference, the key is what sort and how much insulation is behind the actual choice of siding. A brick wall with R20 insulation will beat a vinyl clad house with R10. Vinyl siding has an air gap behind it just by the very nature of install, it kinda "floats" off the sheathing.

And again this is still not the reason for why the bill was signed.

80 mph winds and brick looks fine........vinyl is in the neighbor's yard. Brick has a "massive" thermal mass advantage over vinyl.

[Sunbather]

Originally Posted by wheelsup

Physics says it does not (do a manual J calc).

To be fair it's almost zero difference, the key is what sort and how much insulation is behind the actual choice of siding. A brick wall with R20 insulation will beat a vinyl clad house with R10. Vinyl siding has an air gap behind it just by the very nature of install, it kinda "floats" off the sheathing.

And again this is still not the reason for why the bill was signed.

You are right that the difference is not large and that the insulation behind the siding does make the most difference.

However, thermal mass still has an effect. And, to be fair, the Manual J calculation is about the least sophisticated of the load calculation methods out there. It particularly does a less than stellar job accounting for the effects of thermal mass. While a single wythe brick veneer does not have significant mass (and thus the difference is not as substanial vs an ICF wall or a 12" precast concrete wall or something), it would still better be calculated using a commercial software that uses the RTS method. Or if you wanted to really get into it, DOE software using the HB method.

Manual J just happens to be the best software to have any prayer that a residential HVAC contractor is even going to attempt to do loads in the first place.

[EcoDeb]

Originally Posted by Sunbather

it doesn't. it was touted that was as a selling point early on, but it's mostly been debunked over the years by building scientists and empirical data. It's not necessarily much worse, but it's not measurably better either. Personally, in a hot climate like ours, I'll take the extra building thermal mass of the brick. There are a lot of other factors in the construction that have a significantly larger impact on the energy efficiency of the home anyway.

I should reiterate that I don't think vinyl siding is horrible. It's fine. I don't think it should be banned as it's a choice. But there are several things I do not like about it, starting with the cheap look. Just not for me.

If you follow the post, I commented on the person who said it did and asked them for an explanation. I design energy efficient homes and would never make this type of claim.

[CREW747]

Originally Posted by Treasurevalley92

LOL you can't be serious, right???

Have you read the details of the bill?There is a lot to realistically be concerned about...

[Katana49]

Originally Posted by wheelsup

You are incorrect on brick. It will transfer heat more efficiently than vinyl which is a huge consideration for Texas. Veneers are a better choice because the house will be insulated more effectively. A straight up brick wall has almost no r value (R1).

You should probably just stop talking.


https://www.archtoolbox.com/material...n/rvalues.html



Brick has a higher R-value than siding, end of story. Combined with the same insulation vs a house with vinyl, the brick wall will have a higher R-value.

[Katana49]

Originally Posted by calgirlinnc

Porosity and water resistance are not the same thing. Properly fired brick can stand in water for a period of time and will not buckle, crumble, rot, warp, fade or splinter. The mortar is more of an issue than the brick.

The porosity of brick is what makes it a good choice for a wall because in a properly constructed wall, that water will come back out (unlike with vinyl).

I didn't say they were, but your previous post alluded to an "advantage" of brick vs vinyl in water resistance, and the advantage is not for brick, it's vinyl.