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We have several young new employees in their early 20s living in Austin Ranch and having quite an active social life...Nobody has complained of being bored or with nothing to do after 5 pm...
Are they single?
Are they new to the area?
Austin Ranch is fine if you already know people. The people I know who like it grew up in Plano and the ones who do not are recent transplants.
Eh, I know a couple of people who moved there. It's good if you have a girlfriend or are originally from DFW and have friends already.
Bad spot if you are brand new.
I agree, lived there 2 years. I also agree with everyone who says live near your work. It's not worth the commute.
I've been in DFW for 3+ years, moved here from the East Coast. Currently single guy, mid 30s.
Austin Ranch is a nice place to live, but it's kind of a specific scene - if you went to one of the schools in the region and are part of that post college crowd. The OP could do worse than the Shops, but I have to say it's become even more family oriented since Legacy West opened.... Even being a little older, I feel young for this crowd. I also feel like it's becoming more like Austin with lots of high paying tech and finance jobs bringing more men into the area. Recently, I've seen packs of 20 something dudes roaming at the Shops. Not a good sign.
Addison is complete ****. I live there now, I miss Austin Ranch lol. Addison is really just a holding area for young people in relationships before they buy homes. It's too crazy with traffic and the restaurant scene is very mediocre.
I actually think the advice to move to Uptown is outdated... That area is very overrated and was probably better 5-10 years ago. Deep Ellum is where all the new bars and restaurants are opening up - and it's quite a scene. Unfortunately, Deep Ellum is not convenient to anywhere and it's impossible to drive there without ubering due to the parking situation. Also, there are no grocery stores in Deep Ellum. Downtown is actually getting better, it's at least got some public transit, there is a new corner store on Main that's pretty cool, and living in a high rise is very cool. I'd personally advise the OP to focus on Downtown on the Victory Park side where there is also some good development happening and some nightlife. It will be more convenient than Uptown for commuting on the tollway or getting anywhere else in the DFW being that Uptown is harder to get around.
The striking thing about being single in Dallas is how you lose no matter where you live. Whether you have a really long commute, or you find someone to date who lives 30 or 40 minutes away (which happened to me), finding the right location in Dallas is a real challenge if you're single. Plus, there are a lot of downsides to the city. The burbs have a higher quality of life, especially the further north you go. The people in the burbs are nicer and easier to deal with than the transplants living in city center. McMansionville, not exactly -- there's a lot of new developments everywhere. Frisco actually has a better restaurant scene than Downtown Dallas.
Living uptown/turtle creek, you get to experience the 40k millionaire thing first hand (emanating from the 20 somethings), which I almost completely avoided living up at Austin Ranch and Addison. Downtown has a huge homelessness problem and the bar/food scene is failing to launch. Knox Henderson is also a young people scene in the city, but it's almost entirely SMU students (who may be the most snobby college grads in the area...). Lower Greenville is alright, very walkable, but not close to anything either if you need to commute up to Plano. Deep Ellum can be dangerous, there are shootings every other weekend very close to the nightlife scene (this has also started to occur in uptown).
This is the only city I've ever lived where I've met single 20 somethings who are happier in the suburbs than the city itself. This tends to be locals, but nonetheless, it's an interesting observation given that rental prices in the city center vs. the burbs aren't all that different...
I agree, lived there 2 years. I also agree with everyone who says live near your work. It's not worth the commute.
This is one of the few points of disagreement. I have a different solution to this problem, which I mentioned earlier. I think OP should pass on this job, stay in San Antonio, and wait for a job closer to the city center if he's so inclined to live in Dallas in the future. It really does come down to how much he wants that name on a resume in the future, because the Legacy area has some good Tier One companies with HQs/significant office presences there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by papi-p
I've been in DFW for 3+ years, moved here from the East Coast. Currently single guy, mid 30s.Austin Ranch is a nice place to live, but it's kind of a specific scene - if you went to one of the schools in the region and are part of that post college crowd.
The OP could do worse than the Shops, but I have to say it's become even more family oriented since Legacy West opened.... Even being a little older, I feel young for this crowd. I also feel like it's becoming more like Austin with lots of high paying tech and finance jobs bringing more men into the area. Recently, I've seen packs of 20 something dudes roaming at the Shops. Not a good sign.
There's a lot of conflicting stuff out there about The Shops of Legacy and Legacy West.
Earlier in this thread, TurtleCreek80 talked about the Dallas Cowboy cheerleaders who reside in the area. These are young women in their 20s who mostly every heterosexual man desires. They may also be in Austin Ranch as well, because like you and TreasureValley92 say, Austin Ranch is good for people who are native to this region and went to some of the Texas colleges. Dallas Cowboy cheerleaders often tend to be women with strong local ties who may have spent their formative years in this metroplitan area.
It might be difficult for a transplant with no local ties who didn't spend their formative years here to break into the social circles at The Shops, Legacy West, or Austin Ranch that contain Dallas Cowboy cheerleaders, which would be the only social circles worth breaking into up there. That's why I've thought that option is generally a bad option for a transplant with no local ties like the OP is. That seems like a recipe for a bad experience in this city.
Then there are posters like the one above who is mentioning that The Shops of Legacy/Legacy West is old people still. It doesn't seem to be straying far from its roots. This is a point of view that I tend to believe because Plano/Frisco is a sea of suburbia. I think the characterization of The Shops/Legacy West as an isolated pocket of a pseudo urban experience in a sea of suburbanity is an accurate one. I don't think that option works for a lot of people in their 20s/30s who are transplants. This board seems to have a fair amount of transplants seeking information.
Quote:
Originally Posted by papi-p
Addison is complete ****. Addison is really just a holding area for young people in relationships before they buy homes. It's too crazy with traffic and the restaurant scene is very mediocre.
The opinion that Addison is not good has been one of the few consistent themes in this thread among the posters who have participated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by papi-p
I actually think the advice to move to Uptown is outdated... That area is very overrated and was probably better 5-10 years ago. Deep Ellum is where all the new bars and restaurants are opening up - and it's quite a scene. Unfortunately, Deep Ellum is not convenient to anywhere and it's impossible to drive there without ubering due to the parking situation. Also, there are no grocery stores in Deep Ellum. Downtown is actually getting better, it's at least got some public transit, there is a new corner store on Main that's pretty cool, and living in a high rise is very cool. I'd personally advise the OP to focus on Downtown on the Victory Park side where there is also some good development happening and some nightlife. It will be more convenient than Uptown for commuting on the tollway or getting anywhere else in the DFW being that Uptown is harder to get around.....
Living uptown/turtle creek, you get to experience the 40k millionaire thing first hand (emanating from the 20 somethings), which I almost completely avoided living up at Austin Ranch and Addison. Downtown has a huge homelessness problem and the bar/food scene is failing to launch. Knox Henderson is also a young people scene in the city, but it's almost entirely SMU students (who may be the most snobby college grads in the area...). Lower Greenville is alright, very walkable, but not close to anything either if you need to commute up to Plano. Deep Ellum can be dangerous, there are shootings every other weekend very close to the nightlife scene (this has also started to occur in uptown).
This is the only city I've ever lived where I've met single 20 somethings who are happier in the suburbs than the city itself. This tends to be locals, but nonetheless, it's an interesting observation given that rental prices in the city center vs. the burbs aren't all that different...
Uptown peaked in the 2000s/early 2010s. 2015 was when it first became clear that Uptown was past its peak. Even in post peak Uptown, it still has some advantages. On the whole, it's still a better option than The Shops, Legacy West, or Addison.
Deep Ellum is going through some growing pains. One of the Deep Ellum issues that I perceive is that it's the kind of neighborhood that would do better in another city. It's not a great fit right now for an automobile dependent city like Dallas. I think Deep Ellum is trying to figure out what it wants to be. Before Deep Ellum supplanted Uptown as the so-called cool place to be, it had a distinct identity as a grittier place. Then, it got hipsterized, and then in 2015-present, the formerly Uptown type yuppies started spending time there. Now, it's tough to tell if DE is gritty or yuppie.
Downtown has potential, but it seems to be perpetually at that stage of potential without ever realizing it.
Lower Greenville and Knox-Henderson are areas that are just sort of there. Both of them have been secondary hubs within the central city in the time I've been here. When I got here, there were secondary options to Uptown, and now just secondary options to Deep Ellum.
Quote:
Originally Posted by papi-p
The striking thing about being single in Dallas is how you lose no matter where you live. Whether you have a really long commute, or you find someone to date who lives 30 or 40 minutes away (which happened to me), finding the right location in Dallas is a real challenge if you're single. Plus, there are a lot of downsides to the city. The burbs have a higher quality of life, especially the further north you go. The people in the burbs are nicer and easier to deal with than the transplants living in city center. McMansionville, not exactly -- there's a lot of new developments everywhere. Frisco actually has a better restaurant scene than Downtown Dallas.
You're on to something about how difficult it can be for a single person to choosing a landing spot in Dallas as a transplant. I don't think this is unique to Dallas. I would call it more of a regional Sun Belt thing. You can have happen what you described in Phoenix. The same thing can also easily happen in Los Angeles/Orange County or San Diego, and has happened to people I've known. The commonality with all the cities that I just mentioned is that they all have strong Los Angeles influences in them. Dallas and Phoenix are both inland replicas of Los Angeles in slightly different settings.
1). Maybe we are seeing glimpses why so many millennials trail predecessors in relative financial terms. "How" one does in corporate world by his/her early 30's to a significant degree implies the trajectory of his/her entire career. And that's strongly tied to "What" one earns and saves by his/her early 30's nicely implies the future as well.
2). The OP is very young with what sounds like a nice opportunity.
*To my way of thinking the significant hard costs including ~$400mo. and 45-60hrs. stuck commuting makes the hot spot areas a full stop.
*Take the $400 per mo. invest it in boring things like DRIPS and broad market stuff and decades later have a $1,000,000 or so.
*Take the hours and do anything productive.
*Resist the temptation to party every night and instead grind out useful undergraduate hours, earn an MBA, Law degree, IT related certs etc.- whatever fits using some of the time and money from above.
With just a few exceptions everyone we know who partied and lived the easy life during their 20s and 30s has suffered for it in many ways especially professionally.
3). Passing on this job in hopes of finding another closer to DT/UT is really bad advice IMO. Better by far to take this job and then hop once if needed/desired.
________________________
Someone noted Uptown being past its prime. That's an incomplete thought. Uptown is ~gentrifying/morphing from a live and party area with a business and professional footprint into more of a business and professional area. This is all econ. 101 money rationality stuff. Generally speaking and assuming a local economy can support all this a spot of land is worth more with a professional business or significant development on it than a bar or a scooter repair shop.
________________________
Regarding $40,000.00 millionaires and Uptown, and I fully acknowledge their legions locally. However, some context might help. I used to have a Wealth-X account but most of this is Wealth-X info. that is in the clear.
Keep in mind Wealth-X does not, at least generally, count home equity towards these numbers.
1. DFW is in the top ten worldwide for "High Net Worth Individuals" (that means more or less $1 million-$30million in holdings, home equity excluded) with right at 300,000 individuals.
2. DFW is in the top ten worldwide for "Ultra-High Net Worth Individuals" ($30million and up in holdings).
at around 35,000 individuals.
3. DFW is full or part time home to between 25 and 35 billionaires depending upon which list one believes.
4. DFW is comfortably in the top 10 worldwide for household incomes over $250,000y at a shade less than 300,000 individuals. DFW is also among the top ten in growth rate per that stat (Frank - Knight).
5. DFW also ranks very highly in the number of people under 30 who make $100,000 or more - can't recall the precise stat.
Further, a strong concentration of the above are in HP, UP, Turtle Creek, Uptown, Downtown Dallas, Preston Hollow and North Dallas south of 635. Ergo many of these people are in Uptown regularly. Also many kids of the above live in and around Uptown. You see the point.
A strong concentration of the younger high earners above live and visit Uptown regularly too.
My thesis is simple. Many of the people around here, even young people, pegged as $40,000 millionaires aren't.
This has been a very interesting thread.
Someone noted Uptown being past its prime. That's an incomplete thought. Uptown is ~gentrifying/morphing from a live and party area with a business and professional footprint into more of a business and professional area. This is all econ. 101 money rationality stuff. Generally speaking and assuming a local economy can support all this a spot of land is worth more with a professional business or significant development on it than a bar or a scooter repair shop.
Sorry, as a New Yorker and single dude, I say you should visit other cities and check out the wealthy areas... Visit Brickell in Miami and see what the outcome is of high wealth on a neighborhood's vibe and scene.
Uptown is losing it's luster as a spot to hang out. Most of the new concepts are opening up in other parts of the DFW.
McKinney isn't even a real drag for bar hopping, everything is too spaced apart, the bars are nothing to write home about, and they're full of dudes. West Village hardly has anything worth going to that isn't a chain you can find in other parts of the DFW like Addison or the Shops (Mi Cocina and Taco Diner, lol). If this chainy, car dependent neighborhood without a decent Farmer's Market is the best the wealthy of Dallas can do, that really reflects more on their personality and tastes than Dallas. I've been to a few interesting spots in Turtle Creek, "The Mansion", but this is an older scene. I can't say I've ever been motivated to do anything in Uptown. Even Legacy West has some unique new restaurant concepts that are better visited.
Deep Ellum on the other hand, resembles something like what we have in Austin - a real bar scene without as many chains and a unique diverse vibe. Uptown is nearly all white people that were in sororities/fraternities. Uptown is the area where if you're not really an urbanite, you feel safe in... as an urbanite, I find it overly sterile for a central district in a major city.
The striking thing about DFW is any good restaurant/bar concept is immediately ruined and turned into a chain. I was in Fort Worth this weekend and I found at least 3 new restaurants opening up that have been turned into chain concepts. Stirr, for example, is a hot new scene in Deep Ellum, and now they're opening locations in Addison and Fort Worth. Dallas proper is really an afterthought if you think about it, the real money is to be made outside of the city.
But I agree, the OP can't do wrong living up at the Shops for a short period of time and avoiding a commute, stacking some cash there. But for partying and dating-wise, Dallas is clearly a town that's lacking the basics...
I actually think the advice to move to Uptown is outdated... That area is very overrated and was probably better 5-10 years ago. Deep Ellum is where all the new bars and restaurants are opening up - and it's quite a scene.
Thats why I say live in Uptown or Knox Henderson and party in Deep Ellum. Uptown has become more of a real neighborhood so it has more stuff for your day time needs and it is a 5 min uber from Deep Ellum.
I'm a 24 Year old single male that lives in San Antonio currently and I have an opportunity to work in Plano that I'm considering. The work location will be in Plano but I'm trying to decide where I live? Do I live in Uptown/Deep ellum/Downtown? Or do I live in Plano? I've had some people recommend Addison as well. I can deal with 40 min traffic. What concerns me is how much I'll be paying in tolls per month ( SA doesn't have tolls). I'm an active person and love fitness. I'm social and love to join groups, sports. What do you recommend? Please feel free to ask me any questions, I'll be happy to answer. Thank you!
My kids are close to your age, they were raised in Dallas. They prefer Deep Ellum, Downtown and parts of East Dallas (their words not mine, there are too many douchebags in parts of Uptown). Plano is a big no, they would never live there.
Thats why I say live in Uptown or Knox Henderson and party in Deep Ellum. Uptown has become more of a real neighborhood so it has more stuff for your day time needs and it is a 5 min uber from Deep Ellum.
Yes, it is possible to live in either K-H or Uptown and party in Deep Ellum. It's easier to live in Uptown and party in Uptown, or live in K-H and go out in K-H, but I could see someone mixing in Deep Ellum on weekends and maybe going out in Uptown/K-H weeknights right after work, especially for early stage first dates, which are often done on weeknights.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_
3). Passing on this job in hopes of finding another closer to DT/UT is really bad advice IMO. Better by far to take this job and then hop once if needed/desired.
________________________
Someone noted Uptown being past its prime. That's an incomplete thought. Uptown is ~gentrifying/morphing from a live and party area with a business and professional footprint into more of a business and professional area. This is all econ. 101 money rationality stuff. Generally speaking and assuming a local economy can support all this a spot of land is worth more with a professional business or significant development on it than a bar or a scooter repair shop.
________________________
I am the only person who has said that passing on the option in Plano and staying in San Antonio is a potential option. In some ways, I think it makes sense. I don't think enough people have the guts to walk away from opportunities that are less than ideal. We don't know his social setup in San Antonio. We don't know how much of a difference this salary is in Plano vs what he has going on in San Antonio. We don't know the health of the company where he works in San Antonio (i.e. are they actively conducting layoffs or on the verge of layoffs-even in a healthy economy, there are poorly run companies laying off). We also do not know if he has accepted a job offer by now since the thread is now a week old. This might all be moot at this time.
OP might have a good social setup in San Antonio. He might live/work where all the 20 something action is in San Antonio.
A move to a new city is a big undertaking and I'm inclined to think that it is often better to wait it out for a better opportunity closer to the central city in the future. With that said though, there are big name companies with offices/HQs up in the Legacy corridor. These are the kind of names that can look really good on a resume. It'd be tough for many to walk away from an opportunity with some of those names. I think it is pretty common for young, single, unattached people (say 22-34) to have angst about working for some of these companies knowing that they are far from the desired lifestyle elements if they are transplanting here from elsewhere and have few, if any, meaningful social connections in the city. It is the kind of thing that puts undue stress on a person socially.
As for Uptown being past its prime, back in 2015, I started noticing more of a ghetto element around parts of Uptown on Fri/Sat nights that wasn't evident in 2011-12. I don't think this has changed much. Both Uptown and Deep Ellum are somewhat gritty at night, especially on Friday and Saturday night. We're not talking New York City in the 1980s gritty, but enough to make a reasonable person have hesitation about their level of safety.
1). Maybe we are seeing glimpses why so many millennials trail predecessors in relative financial terms. "How" one does in corporate world by his/her early 30's to a significant degree implies the trajectory of his/her entire career. And that's strongly tied to "What" one earns and saves by his/her early 30's nicely implies the future as well.
2). The OP is very young with what sounds like a nice opportunity.
*To my way of thinking the significant hard costs including ~$400mo. and 45-60hrs. stuck commuting makes the hot spot areas a full stop.
*Take the $400 per mo. invest it in boring things like DRIPS and broad market stuff and decades later have a $1,000,000 or so.
*Take the hours and do anything productive.
*Resist the temptation to party every night and instead grind out useful undergraduate hours, earn an MBA, Law degree, IT related certs etc.- whatever fits using some of the time and money from above.
With just a few exceptions everyone we know who partied and lived the easy life during their 20s and 30s has suffered for it in many ways especially professionally.
3). Passing on this job in hopes of finding another closer to DT/UT is really bad advice IMO. Better by far to take this job and then hop once if needed/desired.
________________________
Someone noted Uptown being past its prime. That's an incomplete thought. Uptown is ~gentrifying/morphing from a live and party area with a business and professional footprint into more of a business and professional area. This is all econ. 101 money rationality stuff. Generally speaking and assuming a local economy can support all this a spot of land is worth more with a professional business or significant development on it than a bar or a scooter repair shop.
________________________
Regarding $40,000.00 millionaires and Uptown, and I fully acknowledge their legions locally. However, some context might help. I used to have a Wealth-X account but most of this is Wealth-X info. that is in the clear.
Keep in mind Wealth-X does not, at least generally, count home equity towards these numbers.
1. DFW is in the top ten worldwide for "High Net Worth Individuals" (that means more or less $1 million-$30million in holdings, home equity excluded) with right at 300,000 individuals.
2. DFW is in the top ten worldwide for "Ultra-High Net Worth Individuals" ($30million and up in holdings).
at around 35,000 individuals.
3. DFW is full or part time home to between 25 and 35 billionaires depending upon which list one believes.
4. DFW is comfortably in the top 10 worldwide for household incomes over $250,000y at a shade less than 300,000 individuals. DFW is also among the top ten in growth rate per that stat (Frank - Knight).
5. DFW also ranks very highly in the number of people under 30 who make $100,000 or more - can't recall the precise stat.
Further, a strong concentration of the above are in HP, UP, Turtle Creek, Uptown, Downtown Dallas, Preston Hollow and North Dallas south of 635. Ergo many of these people are in Uptown regularly. Also many kids of the above live in and around Uptown. You see the point.
A strong concentration of the younger high earners above live and visit Uptown regularly too.
My thesis is simple. Many of the people around here, even young people, pegged as $40,000 millionaires aren't.
I mean that is a lengthy response.
I love it when old people "Discover" the reason millennials are "Behind" on things that they, the older people consider to be important landmarks. For some reason it is always the Millennial's fault.
The first part is little more than the often repeated "Avocado Toast" argument that millenials are somehow spendthrifts and ignores the unique issues and costs our generation has had due to bad decisions by previous generations.
I think the notions behind your opinions aren't wrong per say, but your analysis is
Your numbers are totally wrong. The shops at legacy are just as expensive as uptown. You can find a much wider range in prices for apartments in and around the core because there is a wider variety of older and newer apartments. Shops is all shiny and new.
I know a guy who rents a place for $900, on Katy Trail, Utilities all included, except internet..
I think not only is your $400 a month a wrong figure, but your estimate that you could get a law degree or MBA with that extra $400 bucks and an extra hour a day is wrong.
No one is suggesting the OP party every night, but it is great to have the ability to go to a Stars game on a Tuesday for $9 and a $10 uber.
It's nice to be able to walk to a bar on a Monday night order a beer and watch the cowboys with people who live near you.
Its also nice to have the ability to hang out with your friends and wander down to a bar on a week night drink too much, stay till closing and then walk to grab some food.
It's not a good thing if you make this a habit, but good lord Ed, live a little, it's how you make life long memories.
I'm not saying financially cripple yourself to do this and I'm not saying that you shouldn't save money and invest early.
As far as your point about almost everyone you know who "Partied and took things easy" those are two different things.
As you pointed out, uptown has plenty of successful people there. There are plenty of people who like to have a good time and are very successful.
I think the bigger issue is taking it easy...drinking or smoking at home playing video games instead of being out meeting new people developing social skills and a network.
TL;DR
You have over estimated the savings of living in The Shops and under estimated the value of living in an area with a good social life.
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