Greenhill vs. Hockaday admit (Howe, Van: high school, colleges, income)

[rabbit33]

Originally Posted by EDS_

Reverse order:

1. Eight minutes, given the fact that all schools must over-offer relative to seats, seems reasonable to me. Even Harvard and Princeton get turned down.

2. Given that proportionally more private kids are applying to UT's better and best programs it should come as zero surprise to anyone that some ace prospects are turned down.

2.1. Across the numbers the kid who finishes at the 80th percentile at SM/Cistercian etc. is much better prepared for university level rigor than the 80th percentile kid at brand-x public. Heck the 80th percentile kid from SM is likely to be a NMSF.

2.3. People compete all the time.

The 80th percentile kid from SM is valedictorian at most public schools. Heck, the kids who leave St. Mark's because they're struggling become valedictorians at their local public high school.

It's probably the case that there are SOME students who can't get into UT or A&M on their test scores and grades, because they went to a top private school, who would have gotten in on auto-admit had they graduated at the top of their class in a public high school. It would be interesting, however, to see how many auto-admits graduate in four years versus how many SM, Hock, Cistercian, etc. graduate in four years from their university whatever it may be.

Let's keep in mind that there are actually other goals in schooling than university admittance. No one here seems to want to talk about it. Do you REALLY think the kid with a C average from St. Mark's, who didn't get into UT, has the same kind of education behind him as the A student from Woodrow who was auto-admitted?

[EDS_]

Originally Posted by rabbit33

The 80th percentile kid from SM is valedictorian at most public schools. Heck, the kids who leave St. Mark's because they're struggling become valedictorians at their local public high school.

It's probably the case that there are SOME students who can't get into UT or A&M on their test scores and grades, because they went to a top private school, who would have gotten in on auto-admit had they graduated at the top of their class in a public high school. It would be interesting, however, to see how many auto-admits graduate in four years versus how many SM, Hock, Cistercian, etc. graduate in four years from their university whatever it may be.

Let's keep in mind that there are actually other goals in schooling than university admittance. No one here seems to want to talk about it. Do you REALLY think the kid with a C average from St. Mark's, who didn't get into UT, has the same kind of education behind him as the A student from Woodrow who was auto-admitted?

You and I see this very similarly.

[MenardMQ]

Originally Posted by rabbit33

Do you REALLY think the kid with a C average from St. Mark's, who didn't get into UT, has the same kind of education behind him as the A student from Woodrow who was auto-admitted?

The same kind of education and what happens with admissions are two different things here.

I think Rabbit and EDS and myself are all on the same page with regard to the value of private schools. I believe we've all sent our kids to top private schools, or have children in them, so we're not debating the value proposition.

But given my experience in private schools and having children in them, I have a much healthier dose of skepticism and I can't help but visibly recoil at the sheer insanity of a lot of it. Understand that I've been intimately involved at every level in private schools except actually teaching, so I've seen a lot of the ugly underbelly that goes along with what is "elite private school" education. I've conducted a head of school search and hired a head of school, literally signing my name to the contract. I've run a capital campaign and multiple huge facility projects. I've been intimately involved with all the "development" (read: raising money). Inappropriate student teacher crap. Financials. Setting tuition. Lawsuits. The Endowment. You name it.

My kiddos are off to college, so I'm sort of done with it. But I will not lie, I kind of want to take a shower after all of it, and especially seeing the sheer angst that the entire communities go through. It's maddening. Just read the threads here. My heart aches for some of these parents who treat this stuff as life or death.

So when you see my posts, you'll understand where I'm coming from.... I've seen some s*it man.

[serger]

Originally Posted by EDS_

Maybe I'm missing your point.

Those are kids who meet auto-admit requirements but win their offer via competitive admissions.

It's a checkers level point but an ultra-majroity of those who win completive admissions also meet auto-admit criteria.

I've never seen any hard data on this, but it's most likely correct.

[serger]

Originally Posted by rabbit33

The 80th percentile kid from SM is valedictorian at most public schools. Heck, the kids who leave St. Mark's because they're struggling become valedictorians at their local public high school.

It's probably the case that there are SOME students who can't get into UT or A&M on their test scores and grades, because they went to a top private school, who would have gotten in on auto-admit had they graduated at the top of their class in a public high school. It would be interesting, however, to see how many auto-admits graduate in four years versus how many SM, Hock, Cistercian, etc. graduate in four years from their university whatever it may be.

Let's keep in mind that there are actually other goals in schooling than university admittance. No one here seems to want to talk about it. Do you REALLY think the kid with a C average from St. Mark's, who didn't get into UT, has the same kind of education behind him as the A student from Woodrow who was auto-admitted?

Well, not at the schools that are typically discussed here.

[ChristieP]

Originally Posted by FarNorDFW

Indeed, as Menard implies, if the goal is UT/TAMU, anybody who can get through the admissions process to a top private is much better off going to a non-competitive public HS and going the auto admission route.

That's exactly what my niece did. She went to a public HS in a border town, and graduated in the top 10% of her class so she got auto-admit to UT Austin. No, she didn't do a business or engineering degree, but she did earn her Bachelor's in Social Work.

[debtex]

Originally Posted by MenardMQ

The same kind of education and what happens with admissions are two different things here.

I think Rabbit and EDS and myself are all on the same page with regard to the value of private schools. I believe we've all sent our kids to top private schools, or have children in them, so we're not debating the value proposition.

But given my experience in private schools and having children in them, I have a much healthier dose of skepticism and I can't help but visibly recoil at the sheer insanity of a lot of it. Understand that I've been intimately involved at every level in private schools except actually teaching, so I've seen a lot of the ugly underbelly that goes along with what is "elite private school" education. I've conducted a head of school search and hired a head of school, literally signing my name to the contract. I've run a capital campaign and multiple huge facility projects. I've been intimately involved with all the "development" (read: raising money). Inappropriate student teacher crap. Financials. Setting tuition. Lawsuits. The Endowment. You name it.

My kiddos are off to college, so I'm sort of done with it. But I will not lie, I kind of want to take a shower after all of it, and especially seeing the sheer angst that the entire communities go through. It's maddening. Just read the threads here. My heart aches for some of these parents who treat this stuff as life or death.

So when you see my posts, you'll understand where I'm coming from.... I've seen some s*it man.

As a parent of kids who have completed private school, THANK YOU. I stayed away from that stuff deliberately, hoping that level-headed people were holding up the ethical standards in those rooms.

The value my kids derived from these schools is separate from their college choices. I can say with confidence that they can be successful at any university in the world with the level of academic rigor, executive skills, & character development they mastered in high school. It was hard won, but they will take it wherever they land. The focus on undergraduate college prestige is unwarranted.

[SuperflyMom]

Can anyone comment on the social atmosphere in the upper grades of these two academically rigorous schools? Are the students supportive of each other? Is there collaboration and a sense of community? Or is it just daily competition among the students? I ask this because I read some reviews that allude to the latter, particularly regarding Hockaday. Thank you for any input.

[EDS_]

Originally Posted by debtex

As a parent of kids who have completed private school, THANK YOU. I stayed away from that stuff deliberately, hoping that level-headed people were holding up the ethical standards in those rooms.

The value my kids derived from these schools is separate from their college choices. I can say with confidence that they can be successful at any university in the world with the level of academic rigor, executive skills, & character development they mastered in high school. It was hard won, but they will take it wherever they land. The focus on undergraduate college prestige is unwarranted.

Wonderfully written.

[Taub201]

Remember that anyone who graduates in the top 10% gain auto admission to A&M business and first year general engineering. Therefore, a TJ or Hillcrest kid gets auto admission but a middle of the road or third quarter SM boy might not, depending upon test scores. However, will that kid succeed? Maybe. The third quarter boy might attend SMU on full pay. The first quarter kid is in the running for presidential scholarship at SMU (full ride) or Provost ($30K/year). That said, most SM families don't need the money and will send Johnny to the best school they can (i.e., Duke, Northwestern, Michigan, Vandy, UVa, etc.).

Kids gaining admission to UT need to be top 10% at SM for b-school or engineering with top scores. However, I've known quite a few of those that turn UT McCombs, even Honors, down for Ivy-types for business. These weren't family business people but double income parents with mid-six figure incomes.

HPHS graduates attending UT have declined precipitously over the last few years. Now, UT is down to the 30s per class when it used to be over 70. Many attending are those cool kids with very solid leadership that aren't going into engineering or business. Communications, economics, education, social work...