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I know, how dare you criticize anything. Don't like it, leave.
We only tolerate the kind that are in awe of everything and do not questions things.
Quite frankly, Dallas made a lot of sense pre covid. 2 teacher household family could afford a decent house with a swimming pool in Frisco. The cost of car ownership regrading actual car cost and insurance was a lot more palatable. Heck I remember I used to pay 6.5 cents per kWH pre and during covid.
Post Covid, DFW and especially north suburbs went through a massive craze. Huge spike in house prices, cars, insurance both in health and car. Utilities have doubled or tripled. I just do not get people who refuse to admit that unless you owned a house and all cars pre covid in DFW (specifically north suburbs) - it is very painful to be here right now.
Pretty sure pre covid you could buy into Highland Park at 1.2 to 1.3M without many issues. Such prices are impossible today.
So ofcourse if you sit in your pre-covid house and you bought cars pre covid as well - barely anything has changed. If anything, everything is great. Your house and car are both worth a lot more now. Too bad for people starting out without either right now - those can leave though. We don't want that kind here anyway, imagine being so poor that you are only now buying house and cars in DFW - NIMBY!
I know, how dare you criticize anything. Don't like it, leave.
We only tolerate the kind that are in awe of everything and do not questions things.
Quite frankly, Dallas made a lot of sense pre covid. 2 teacher household family could afford a decent house with a swimming pool in Frisco. The cost of car ownership regrading actual car cost and insurance was a lot more palatable. Heck I remember I used to pay 6.5 cents per kWH pre and during covid.
Post Covid, DFW and especially north suburbs went through a massive craze. Huge spike in house prices, cars, insurance both in health and car. Utilities have doubled or tripled. I just do not get people who refuse to admit that unless you owned a house and all cars pre covid in DFW (specifically north suburbs) - it is very painful to be here right now.
Pretty sure pre covid you could buy into Highland Park at 1.2 to 1.3M without many issues. Such prices are impossible today.
So ofcourse if you sit in your pre-covid house and you bought cars pre covid as well - barely anything has changed. If anything, everything is great. Your house and car are both worth a lot more now. Too bad for people starting out without either right now - those can leave though. We don't want that kind here anyway, imagine being so poor that you are only now buying house and cars in DFW - NIMBY!
Nothing you've said is wrong although I don't recall the entry level price point of Park Cities pre-Covid. I just don't think other places or cities have become relatively more attractive or relatively less expensive than DFW. As other cities experience housing price declines, that may change. It remains to be seen.
I know, how dare you criticize anything. Don't like it, leave.
We only tolerate the kind that are in awe of everything and do not questions things.
Quite frankly, Dallas made a lot of sense pre covid. 2 teacher household family could afford a decent house with a swimming pool in Frisco. The cost of car ownership regrading actual car cost and insurance was a lot more palatable. Heck I remember I used to pay 6.5 cents per kWH pre and during covid.
Post Covid, DFW and especially north suburbs went through a massive craze. Huge spike in house prices, cars, insurance both in health and car. Utilities have doubled or tripled. I just do not get people who refuse to admit that unless you owned a house and all cars pre covid in DFW (specifically north suburbs) - it is very painful to be here right now.
Pretty sure pre covid you could buy into Highland Park at 1.2 to 1.3M without many issues. Such prices are impossible today.
So ofcourse if you sit in your pre-covid house and you bought cars pre covid as well - barely anything has changed. If anything, everything is great. Your house and car are both worth a lot more now. Too bad for people starting out without either right now - those can leave though. We don't want that kind here anyway, imagine being so poor that you are only now buying house and cars in DFW - NIMBY!
It's one thing to constructively criticize. It's another throw out generally absurd claims and points......A. normal earning guys and gals would be financially better off in Manhattan than Dallas. B. Dallas RE should get rid of AC and instead rely on thermal mass for cooling like those in desert climates. I mean come on really.
___________
To your last point there several very loud people on this forum who have panned buying a home around here in favor of renting and have done so for several years. I fear their problem will compound as they wait for price decreases that we are very unlikely to see in the face of spiking rents.
__________
The fact is life is tough on those with moderate incomes an inflationary environment makes that much worse.
__________
I didn't ask why you don't leave a cut down. I'm genuinely curious. My wife and I had a place in SFCA that we loved but once the bum and feces factors became too much we sold. We are close to selling in NYC as well.
I know, how dare you criticize anything. Don't like it, leave.
We only tolerate the kind that are in awe of everything and do not questions things.
Quite frankly, Dallas made a lot of sense pre covid. 2 teacher household family could afford a decent house with a swimming pool in Frisco. The cost of car ownership regrading actual car cost and insurance was a lot more palatable. Heck I remember I used to pay 6.5 cents per kWH pre and during covid.
Post Covid, DFW and especially north suburbs went through a massive craze. Huge spike in house prices, cars, insurance both in health and car. Utilities have doubled or tripled. I just do not get people who refuse to admit that unless you owned a house and all cars pre covid in DFW (specifically north suburbs) - it is very painful to be here right now.
Pretty sure pre covid you could buy into Highland Park at 1.2 to 1.3M without many issues. Such prices are impossible today.
So ofcourse if you sit in your pre-covid house and you bought cars pre covid as well - barely anything has changed. If anything, everything is great. Your house and car are both worth a lot more now. Too bad for people starting out without either right now - those can leave though. We don't want that kind here anyway, imagine being so poor that you are only now buying house and cars in DFW - NIMBY!
I don’t know when you moved here but you have seriously rose colored glasses on about what was happening here pre-Covid. DFW has been on a 13 year tear coming out of the Great Recession.
Frisco 2010 median home price = $280k
Frisco 2019 median home price = $425k….not sure how you calculate that two teachers could by a home for 4X annual income in Frisco pre-COVID unless you meant 10 years before Covid….
50% price increase in the decade before Covid. Toyota & multiple other HQ relos made Plano / Frisco / Prosper prices just absolutely skyrocket. Toyota opened HQ in 2017 IIRC and workers started moving here in 2015/16.
And for HPISD, we were looking for a $1.0M home there in 2012 with no luck. You definitely were NOT buying anything liveable in HPISD for $1.2-1.3M in 2019. Not even close. Maybe like $1.7-1.8M.
I’m not ignoring the unsustainable increases since COVID but lots and lots of families were well priced out of Frisco & HP before the COVID craziness happened.
I don’t know when you moved here but you have seriously rose colored glasses on about what was happening here pre-Covid. DFW has been on a 13 year tear coming out of the Great Recession.
Frisco 2010 median home price = $280k
Frisco 2019 median home price = $425k….not sure how you calculate that two teachers could by a home for 4X annual income in Frisco pre-COVID unless you meant 10 years before Covid….
50% price increase in the decade before Covid. Toyota & multiple other HQ relos made Plano / Frisco / Prosper prices just absolutely skyrocket. Toyota opened HQ in 2017 IIRC and workers started moving here in 2015/16.
And for HPISD, we were looking for a $1.0M home there in 2012 with no luck. You definitely were NOT buying anything liveable in HPISD for $1.2-1.3M in 2019. Not even close. Maybe like $1.7-1.8M.
I’m not ignoring the unsustainable increases since COVID but lots and lots of families were well priced out of Frisco & HP before the COVID craziness happened.
Regarding teachers, pretty sure they make around 60-65K a pop. 130K is more than enough to afford a 425K home - which they have been doing.
Barely anyone is stuck to the X3 income to house price ratio these days. X4 to X5 ratio is very commonly found, as long as you don't have huge car notes. Median HH income in Frisco is 120K right now. To say that this won't be enough to purchase 425K house is ridiculous in 2019. Here is another shocker for you, It's pretty easy to get a mortgage with only 3 or 5% down.
I saw new construction in Highland Park going for 1.3M 1.4M - yes they were smaller at begining of Covid.
It's one thing to constructively criticize. It's another throw out generally absurd claims and points......A. normal earning guys and gals would be financially better off in Manhattan than Dallas. B. Dallas RE should get rid of AC and instead rely on thermal mass for cooling like those in desert climates. I mean come on really.
___________
To your last point there several very loud people on this forum who have panned buying a home around here in favor of renting and have done so for several years. I fear their problem will compound as they wait for price decreases that we are very unlikely to see in the face of spiking rents.
__________
The fact is life is tough on those with moderate incomes an inflationary environment makes that much worse.
__________
I didn't ask why you don't leave a cut down. I'm genuinely curious. My wife and I had a place in SFCA that we loved but once the bum and feces factors became too much we sold. We are close to selling in NYC as well.
So it's a wild claim to suggest that an average Dallas couple household making 60K - without currently owning a home or car. Would be better off in NYC?
I literally walked you through the numbers on it, yes there is some caveats about approval, however we also ignored the fact that there is a lot of 'income restricted' housing which would help. Numbers I pulled were just pure market rate. If you made 70K in NYC as a household, you'd qualify for A LOT of assistance, unlike DFW. I did not even take that into account, just pure market prices.
DFW biggest financial killer is having to have a car per each working adult and paying pretty much the highest insurance for it in the country. All while making very low salary in face of insanely high car prices and insurance.
Regarding NYC awful situation with homeless etc. I agree, however, have you been to Downtown Dallas? You know around the Dart station? There is literally feces all over the walkways, I would not go there at night period.
I just find it hillarious when people bash NYC or other cities for their crime as if it does not impact Dallas Downtown or homeless. Go ask people who live on Mckinney ave about Sunday Funday and the weekly shootings. Ask people on Commerce about walking at night or evening, when streets are full of agressive homeless people - I remember one lady got stabbed not too long ago.
Point taken on teacher salaries. It’s good they’ve pushed out of the $50k range now.
But no, you did not see new construction in HPISD for $1.3-1.4M pre-COVID. Not a house anyways. Perhaps a single family attached?
I do not recall, maybe I'll go look at it when I get time. I remember seeing it and saying, wow these are not that expensive, it was pre or right beginning of Covid.
Perhaps I will try to dig through and see if I can find them.
But a quick search now, there are homes around 1.5M right now in HP. So my idea that at begining or pre covid there were more is not that unsuitable.
Yes they are across the tollway but its still HP. And again, that is today, there were houses like these on 'other' side in HP proper for these prices at begining or pre covid.
So it's a wild claim to suggest that an average Dallas couple household making 60K - without currently owning a home or car. Would be better off in NYC?
I literally walked you through the numbers on it, yes there is some caveats about approval, however we also ignored the fact that there is a lot of 'income restricted' housing which would help. Numbers I pulled were just pure market rate. If you made 70K in NYC as a household, you'd qualify for A LOT of assistance, unlike DFW. I did not even take that into account, just pure market prices.
DFW biggest financial killer is having to have a car per each working adult and paying pretty much the highest insurance for it in the country. All while making very low salary in face of insanely high car prices and insurance.
Regarding NYC awful situation with homeless etc. I agree, however, have you been to Downtown Dallas? You know around the Dart station? There is literally feces all over the walkways, I would not go there at night period.
I just find it hillarious when people bash NYC or other cities for their crime as if it does not impact Dallas Downtown or homeless. Go ask people who live on Mckinney ave about Sunday Funday and the weekly shootings. Ask people on Commerce about walking at night or evening, when streets are full of agressive homeless people - I remember one lady got stabbed not too long ago.
1. You've had three people who know NYC tell you - your illustration is off. What more do you need? Fact is you offered apples to grapefruit comparisons.
2. Your very low salary claim is somewhere between just wrong and incomplete. All in (COL+taxes) regular wage earners in DFW are some of the best paid in the country per big cities.
3. I was talking less about crime and more about bums and homeless people. You stay away from the DART station at night........I stay away from Washington Square Park (formerly one of the coolest spots on Earth) in broad daylight.........I'll walk though but I'm not stopping.
Last edited by EDS_; 09-16-2022 at 01:34 PM..
Reason: corrected and your v. you're typo
I don’t know when you moved here but you have seriously rose colored glasses on about what was happening here pre-Covid. DFW has been on a 13 year tear coming out of the Great Recession.
Frisco 2010 median home price = $280k
Frisco 2019 median home price = $425k….not sure how you calculate that two teachers could by a home for 4X annual income in Frisco pre-COVID unless you meant 10 years before Covid….
50% price increase in the decade before Covid. Toyota & multiple other HQ relos made Plano / Frisco / Prosper prices just absolutely skyrocket. Toyota opened HQ in 2017 IIRC and workers started moving here in 2015/16.
And for HPISD, we were looking for a $1.0M home there in 2012 with no luck. You definitely were NOT buying anything liveable in HPISD for $1.2-1.3M in 2019. Not even close. Maybe like $1.7-1.8M.
I’m not ignoring the unsustainable increases since COVID but lots and lots of families were well priced out of Frisco & HP before the COVID craziness happened.
Definitions of "livable" differ but I had three colleagues buy in UP in 2012-2013. None spent over $1.1M and all their homes were perfectly nice. They weren't new construction but none were the outdated 1,700 square foot 3-2 homes from the 1920s on small lots either. True, things were getting fairly expensive there pre-COVID but it also wasn't stupid expensive to live in HPISD until fairly recently.
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