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Wrightflyer, thanks for the info on older Beavercreek neighborhoods. I'd also be interested in learning more about the area bounded by grange (west), kemp (north), north fairfield (east), and dayton-xenia (south). Seems like there are many houses within our price range (or below which is a plus!) as well as on the east side of north fairfiled by the high school.
A few specific questions on my mind:
- I've gotten the impression some of the older parts of Beavercreek are not well taken care of by the residents (i.e. poorly maintained houses and multiple cars parked in yards). Does this impression ring true?
This map may help:
Pink is condos, apartments, commercial development, etc.
Orange is declining or is otherwise "not well taken care of".
Yellow is low 100's but in a decent neighborhood (100-150).
Green is from 140 to 180-ish.
Blue is above that.
I can shoot you an email containing a higher resolution picture if you'd like (admittedly the picture was taken with an iPotato)
I wouldn't necessarily agree with parts of that map. Woodhaven is certainly not "declining" not is most parts of that map. It also excludes the entire township in its coverage.
Also, while some homes can be "run down," this can be due to a number of reasons. Some is foreclosure (no city is without, including Oakwood), some is older residents unable to perform/pay for upkeep, and some are people that prefer to have the ability to do those things like parking multiple cars at their home, being able to work on them, etc. The last one is a reference to not having an HOA (or the City of Oakwood) control everything a person can do with her/his property. That's where some of the conservatism in Beavercreek comes from.
However, there are plenty of Democrats in Beavercreek as well. People get this idea that in all of Beavercreek exists a dozen-and-a-half democrat/liberal voters and everyone else is rabid tea-party toting Republicans. As the city diversifies with more Indian, Middle Eastern, Pakistani, Chinese, Vietnamese, Koreans, blacks, etc, it is less "old, white, republican establishment" crowd and more of a purple mix. I predict in 2020 or 2024, Beavercreek will essentially be a centrist town (right now a right leaning on scale of: extreme left - left leaning - centrist - right leaning - extreme right).
Here's my problem with Oakwood. It is a "keeping up with the Jones" place, even if it isn't a bastion of old money anymore. I've known plenty of people while growing up and today who continue to support that notion and idea. Also, as was mentioned, the city can be strict on what you can and cannot do with your exterior property. Basically, the city is one big HOA, except it is an actual governing body. Taxes are high - property and income (is there a city income and school income tax in Oakwood??? If someone could figure this out, I'd appreciate it), the schools are notorious for focusing on high-achievers, your commute will be longer than 20 minutes, and DLM isn't cheap for everyday shopping. There is no Kroger inside Oakwood, the closest decent one being at Stroop and Shroyer.
Now my pluses for Oakwood. Great schools if you value highly focused on academics education. Amazing pocket parks. Amazingly beautiful homes (though most are outrageously expensive now for my liking). nice access to downtown and UD area. Sidewalks and easy (east of Far Hills) to figure out grid pattern. Rec Center. Amazing police/Fire/EMS force. They are all rolled into one unit and everyone rotates between roles.
Final verdict: For everything Oakwood offers, I would go with parts of Kettering over it. Kettering has: good schools (though not top 250 HS in nation) without the keeping up with the Jones atmosphere; great park amenities, with many neighborhood parks and an amazing rec center; sidewalks in most neighborhoods; well maintained homes in most parts, including area you mentioned along Whipp and Rahn, close to shopping (though it has its share of old strip mall hell and some are half empty due to their age/obsolescence, especially Wilmington Pike in places). Great fire/police/EMS force.
But I would still give Beavercreek a hard look as well. Crime in Beavercreek is extremely low. It has much of what Kettering offers (minus the rec center). It's schools are amazing, and doing even better than when I was a student (when they were still great). It has just implemented a highly respected "Design Labs" based curriculum at its middle and high schools. As a side note, Fed Ex donated an old B727 to the district for use in this curriculum.
The neighborhood(s) you mentioned isn't bad in any way. It's, as I mentioned, a mix of blue collar and retirees with an influx of young families and professionals. May not be of the pristine maintenance and upkeep of and by the wealthy of Oakwood, but it is still a well-off area with people who value education and their city. I personally would prefer the area around the Beavercreek HS campus over Knowllwood and some of its surroundings. The homes tend to be bigger closer to the HS. Many kids around there walk to the HS, you're closer to the bike paths/routes (which Beavercreek is abundantly blessed with), and Kroger is walk-able/bike-able from many homes along the Dayton-Xenia corridor east of North Fairfield. Keep in mind with older homes, whether Oakwood, Kettering or Beavercreek, to get a good, independent inspector. It's always a good idea, but especially with older homes.
One area I would also add in Beavercreek is the Banyon Woods area (most of the streets east of the shopping centers off N. Fairfield and north of Kemp / south of New Germany Trebein).
Good to know he got his job at the base. Puts some explanation behind a lot of postings.
Postscript: Somewhere in here there's a message suggesting zip code 45415 (Shiloh and Upper Riverdale) is the wealthiest area around. That's not quite accurate. North is reportedly the most solvent area of town (and might be described as a hefty part of the "real Dayton").
Are you sure you aren't looking at 45315? That's Moss Creek and exurban parts of Clayton, where there is more money (as opposed to the denser parts of Clayton around Main/OH-48). Even then, the 45415 zip code includes, in its northern half, parts of Clayton, where there are still people with spending power. And the southern half is the wealthier and quieter part of the not-well-regarded Harrison Township.
Thanks for the quick replies and varying perspectives on Kettering and Beavercreek! We don't necessarily mind paying taxes in order to get good city services, which seems to be a positive in Kettering with their parks, city services and sidewalks (we are moving from a city with a 2.5% income tax). However, not having to pay income tax by living in Beavercreek would be a big saving, plus we'd be closer to the base and bike trails. And the overall impression I get is that Beavercreek schools out rank Kettering.
Wrightflyer, thanks for the info on older Beavercreek neighborhoods. I'd also be interested in learning more about the area bounded by grange (west), kemp (north), north fairfield (east), and dayton-xenia (south). Seems like there are many houses within our price range (or below which is a plus!) as well as on the east side of north fairfiled by the high school.
A few specific questions on my mind:
- I've gotten the impression some of the older parts of Beavercreek are not well taken care of by the residents (i.e. poorly maintained houses and multiple cars parked in yards). Does this impression ring true?
- Oakwood seems really appealing with kids walking to school, a community focus on education and great sense of community. The east side of 48 has houses within our price range and we don't mind the small size. However, is the community welcoming to newcomers? Is everyone there trying to keep up with Joneses? Overall it seems like Oakwood has great city services and schools for the high taxes they pay, we don't mind spending money on a community but we aren't interested in trying to fit in by obtaining possessions (or having our kids group up with that mentality). Also are the areas around Oakwood, especially North and East particularly, unsavory (i.e., I wouldn't want to go for a walk there or feel safe having kids walk there)?
wrightflyer and hensleya1, who is currently looking for a house in Beavercreek, posted and are probably going to be your best info sources there. I don't think I'd be able to add much info.
As for Oakwood, I'd agree with Joe's analysis, but wrightflyer does have some good, true points.
The city government there does work like a giant HOA, which has benefits and drawbacks. It's certainly welcoming to newcomers, it is a popular spot to relocate to in the Dayton area and people are always moving in and out. I would not agree that people in Oakwood are materialistic or overly concerned about status. Keep in mind you are moving to Dayton, OH, not the Hamptons, coastal LA, or even Indian Hill in Cincinnati. Oakwood people aren't pretentious.
The one question the posters did not address as much is Oakwood safety, so I'll provide some info.
Crime in Oakwood is basically non-existent. This is because it is up on a hill, surrounded by good areas (and even then since it is on the hill it is isolated from the communities which it is surrounded by too). The policing there is excellent, and a strong presence. There are always police eyes on the street, and neighborhood watch, etc. The big upside is that you can let your elementary school aged child walk home from school and not worry. So no, there is no place in Oakwood where it feels unsavory.
Overall, given your criteria I wouldn't overlook Oakwood or Carriage Trails in addition to Beavercreek or Kettering. Too many factors line up that make these places work for your needs.
Are you sure you aren't looking at 45315? That's Moss Creek and exurban parts of Clayton, where there is more money (as opposed to the denser parts of Clayton around Main/OH-48). Even then, the 45415 zip code includes, in its northern half, parts of Clayton, where there are still people with spending power. And the southern half is the wealthier and quieter part of the not-well-regarded Harrison Township.
Said in the thread I couldn't follow it very well. Somewhere someone said 45415, so I went with that since Shiloh has been well-to-do.
The details give an average for things like income and net worth. The numbers are different from the basic list's income and net worth, but that does say "Median" (which isn't exactly the same thing).
In addition, the population for 45315 is listed as 4918 while the population for 45415 is listed as 12281. Put in two farmers with prime real estate and "average net worth" and the like may be completely misleading.
If you are talking about what is considered "Dayton" (Clayton isn't even though it is in Montgomery county), then the point remains that the north side is considered more solvent.
Once went to an excellent doctor in what was called Clayton. He lived there because he wanted a farm. While that may be gone now, I would guess there are still farms out that way.
It's somewhat erroneous to think that all the money (or professionalism) is concentrated in certain areas. As I recall the man that devised Iams (sp?) dog food lived in Vandalia. And, for that matter I always smile when people post about base personnel living in Beavercreek -- at one point there reportedly was a colonel living in Five Oaks.
Oh... that's where all the (whatever) lives. Not true.
Anyhoo, it appears that the OP and I are looking for similar criteria (although proximity to amenities is somewhat lower on my list and highway access at the top):
I would seriously look into areas surrounding the high school, off Dayton-Xenia Road. Depending your work schedule, you'll probably get to leave early enough to avoid the morning traffic that comes from the schools. The area behind the high school is also quite extensive - but if you can locate on the south side of Dayton-Xenia, you can take the back road out to 35 and be on the base in 15 minutes.
I work 7:45 to 4:15 and consequently leave my house at about 7:15... which likely wouldn't change if I moved to Beavercreek. It's early enough to avoid most of the school traffic along Dayton-Xenia. If it became an issue I would move my work time up to 7:30... As I'm sure you're aware the base has a "core hours requirement" between 9 and 3 daily, which gives employees some flexibility on when they can come and go in the mornings and afternoons.
A second neighborhood I'm considering is anything along Indian Ripple Road between I-675 and North Fairfield Road. Most of those houses are also in the same price range... they have good highway access, but admittedly aren't on top of a grocery store and schools like the first neighborhood is. But the price point is generally better (think 120's to 140's.) You'll likely be right at 150 if you locate near the high school.
It may be slightly more than you'd like to commute but the eastern edge of Miami Township (bordering Washington Township) is worth considering. That's where we live and it fit all the requirements - affordable, convenient, good schools - when we purchased our house about 6 years ago.
Area B is the most convenient part of WPAFB to reach from the south suburbs and the convenience to I-75 from Austin Blvd is a definite perk to the area (traffic brought on by Austin Landing aside). We have quite a few neighbors that work on base. I'd guess you could be to the gate off I-675 in 25-30 minutes from home depending on the time of day / traffic.
Kettering's a great area with affordable housing and great schools, too.
Beavercreek, Bellbrook, and Sugarcreek Township are very popular with civilian and military base personnel, and you will find a fair concentration in Washington Township/Centerville area. All these have easy access via I-675, tho can be congested once you get off the freeway.
Good comments on Oakwood and how the current reality doesn't match the local stereotype of the place. If you are from NEO Oakwood is sort of a mix of Cleveland Heights (but without t the Coventry strip) and Shaker Heights, but without Cleveland's east side ghetto being right next door. Oakwood draws a lot of academics and young professionals and is probably a lot more politically and socially liberal than it's reputation. Yet, I don't think its popular with base workers, so you would be a bit of an outlier if you lived there.
All of the suburbs you have mentioned are exactly the areas I would recommend to you as well. My husband and I grew up in Centerville, and ultimately ended up in Bellbrook when his career took us back to WPAFB for a few years but we would have been happy in any of the areas you're talking about. That price range will get you a rancher most likely built in the 60's; most of the lots will be roughly 1/2 acre in those areas at that price. Its worth your time to take a house hunting trip to get a better feel for the areas. Best of luck with your move!
Curious, what is
"The kids don't call Fairmont "****mont"
would like to know what the asterisks are. Know many people who went there and have never heard anything deregatory
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