01-28-2017, 08:30 AM
Location: in a parallel universe
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Is it true that when a community is in the first phase of building that it's the builder that decides what the HOA fee would be?
and I also read that once the amenities are completed that HOA fees will go up and then at some point an HOA of homeowners is formed.
But my question is.. Once all the amenities are in and the community is established does the HOA fee ever go up? or does it ever go down in price as time goes by?
My main concern is that I'll buy a brand new build in a new community and then find out later on that the HOA fees are too expensive.
Thanks for any input.
01-28-2017, 10:00 AM
Location: Delaware Native
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Yes, builders decide, initially, what the HOA fee will be.
I've seen most of them go up. Maybe, not until the community is built out. Once the builder is gone, usually, the homeowners in the community take over, have meetings, elect officers, and manage the budget. Sometimes, after the community is built out, the builders specify their choice to take over the HOA, a separate entity. Costs to plow snow, mow grass, and upkeep the common areas all go up. I've never seen the HOA fee go down. A mandatory HOA is recorded with the county, and if you don't pay your dues, they can attach a lien on your property.
Voluntary HOA fees work differently, and we have a lot of those in Kent County. With a voluntary HOA, if you don't pay the HOA fee, the HOA can't put a lien on your property. The voluntary HOA is looser.
01-28-2017, 10:03 AM
Location: in a parallel universe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
rdlr
Yes, builders decide, initially, what the HOA fee will be.
I've seen most of them go up. Maybe, not until the community is built out. Once the builder is gone, usually, the homeowners in the community take over, have meetings, elect officers, and manage the budget. Costs to plow snow, mow grass, and upkeep the common areas all go up. I've never seen the HOA fee go down.
Do you know if they ever raise the HOA fee periodically?
I'm trying to decide between a new build or a resale in an already established community.
01-28-2017, 10:09 AM
Location: Delaware Native
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It's up to them.
01-28-2017, 05:00 PM
Location: Lewes, DE
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
elliedeee
Do you know if they ever raise the HOA fee periodically?
HOA fees generally cover two things; (1) the Operating Expenses of the community (e.g., paying the light bills, maintaining the landscaping, paying the pool management company), and (2) building a Capital Reserve to replace things at the end of their useful life (e.g., a new roof and siding on the club house, relaminating the pool after a number of years, replacing the community roads if they are private). Operating Expenses recur regularly, and the community needs to pay for them from day 1; Capital Expenses are generally your "big ticket" items that occur after long intervals.
As with any budget, expenditures and therefore the HOA fees theoretically could go up or down, but as with most of our budgets, they only go up. That is usually because the cost of living drives up the cost of the Operating Expenses, because electric bills and landscaping service costs generally go up, not down. Funds for the larger Capital Expenses can be built up over time, but predicting future costs are never an exact science. For example, your community may assume that your clubhouse roof will need to be replaced for $100,000 in 20 years, and the vinyl siding will need to be replaced for $35,000 in 15 years. So part of the HOA fees are set aside every year to take care of that...but the roof may last only 14 years (or 26)! The goal is to have enough built up to cover all (or most) of predicted replacement costs by the time they occur.
The developer does indeed set the initial HOA fees, supposedly taking all these things into account. But remember, they have an incentive to keep the fees low while they are selling the properties because a lower HOA fee naturally is more appealing to prospective buyers. So I am sure that some tend to be a bit on the "optimistic" side when estimating future costs...which means when the development transitions to the homeowners and they do an initial Reserve Study, they may find that they need to raise assessments to cover future expenses. Not saying this will always happen, but I am sure it does sometimes.
In communities still under developer HOA control, I'd recommend asking to see the Operating and Capital Reserve funding for the community, and determine if the current HOA fees (multiplied by the number of final units) make sense. If it is an existing community in which the HOA is controlled by the homeowners, ask to talk to the HOA President about the finances. I'm sure he/she would be happy to do so.
Naturally, the fewer amenities a community has, the lower the total costs. And the more residents it has, the more those costs are spread over a large number of people. As with everything in life, we have to pay to maintain whatever lifestyle we choose. If yours includes tennis courts, clubhouses, indoor/outdoor pools, "free" lawn irrigation and mowing, fitness centers, outdoor community barbecue areas, playgrounds, kayak launches, and large open spaces, you have a nice lifestyle ... and you'll pay for it.
Hope that helps! Best of luck in your search.
01-28-2017, 05:48 PM
Location: Former LI'er Now Rehoboth Beach, DE
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I currently am in an HOA whose fees did in fact go down. RDLR pretty well explained it perfectly. It is all dependent upon how good your board is, and by good I mean diligent in being cost effective yet willing to make difficult decisions despite what some homeowners think. We moved in 2013, in 2014 they reduced the fees for 2015 and 2016. It was recommended that the fees be increased in the 4th quarter for the new year and we are now $6.40 over where we were when we first moved in.
We had an excellent reserve fund and now as the community ages the board has identified areas where we may need to spend down the reserve, so we just had an increase this month.
I have written extensively in the past about the advantages of new builds vs. resales. Timing is everything, when we were looking in 2011, there was a booming community and builder whose community we were interested in and planned to revisit once we were closer to the seriously buying timeframe. Two years passed and that builder did not sell as many homes as he thought and he pulled out of the community. The community sat builder less for over 15 months before another builder came in. Additionally, if a community is planned and doesn't sell out the issue becomes how to maintain the amenities that were supposed to be shared by X (the proposed number of homes). There is a degree of builder liability but that won't help much at a certain point. There are many plusses to being a new buyer, but you need to be careful.
01-28-2017, 06:21 PM
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If considering buying into a HOA community you also want to know what all of the responsibilities of the HOA are.
If considering buying into a HOA community you also want to know what all of the responsibilities of the HOA are. Read all HOA documents before purchasing. If you have questions ask your realtor before purchasing. Ask the HOA officers before purchasing. Ask a respected real-estate lawyer before purchasing. Etc, etc...
The HOA may also own the roads/streets and storm sewers, etc.. And I am sure they may own other things I have never thought of. Or have current or potential liabilities I have never thought of. Some of these costs long term can be flat out enormous. Especially if the HOA board members have little or no property management experience.
Last edited by NJBoy3; 01-28-2017 at 06:30 PM ..
01-29-2017, 06:35 AM
Location: Former LI'er Now Rehoboth Beach, DE
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
NJBoy3
If considering buying into a HOA community you also want to know what all of the responsibilities of the HOA are.
If considering buying into a HOA community you also want to know what all of the responsibilities of the HOA are. Read all HOA documents before purchasing. If you have questions ask your realtor before purchasing. Ask the HOA officers before purchasing. Ask a respected real-estate lawyer before purchasing. Etc, etc...
The HOA may also own the roads/streets and storm sewers, etc.. And I am sure they may own other things I have never thought of. Or have current or potential liabilities I have never thought of. Some of these costs long term can be flat out enormous. Especially if the HOA board members have little or no property management experience.
We have an excellent board. The members have no property management experience at all but of the seven one is an engineer, a CPA/financial planner, an architect, and attorney, retired school principal, retired maintenance director for a college and an IT person. The interesting part is that the one in the group that most might go, Huh at, is so good at facilitating discussions and swaying things from heated to calm that they are an asset we could not live without. A good board requires dedicated people, who are willing to give their time.
Many HOA's cover different things, so you need to read and ask and NJBoy said. Also ask if there have been special assessments, levied and when and ask to see the balance in the operating and reserve funds.
01-29-2017, 08:29 AM
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Your decision about resale or new build has zero impact on the HOA assessments.
The developer will stay in control until such time as it wants to or is forced to exit.
The developer can unilaterally amend the restrictive covenants and impose more restrictions.
The developer will also control the HOA and can impose higher assessments through either control of the HOA or control of the restrictive covenants and other subdivision documents. You can be hit with special assessments separate and apart from the regular assessments. In all likelihood, the developer has provided that the HOA can borrow money. Your house is ultimately security for payment of the debt taken on by the HOA. Although the law varies among states there is likely no obligation for the developer to "finish" the amenities, whatever you think they are. There is also no requirement that the HOA actually spend the money it takes in on maintenance or operational costs. You simply have a blind obligation to pay money to the HOA. If you have other options consider exercising them. In many places across the country your only choice is which HOA.
01-29-2017, 02:04 PM
Location: Delaware Native
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For Kent County, Delaware - Here's a link to access Homeowners Associations, in addition to some interesting information.
Homeowners' Association
I'm sure there must be a link for Sussex County, similar to this.
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Most Common Occupations - Material moving occupations (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - Correctional institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Federal prisons and detention centers (%)
People in Group quarters - Halfway houses (%)
People in Group quarters - Local jails and other confinement facilities (including police lockups) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military disciplinary barracks (%)
People in Group quarters - State prisons (%)
People in Group quarters - Other types of correctional institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Nursing homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards, hospices, and schools for the handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards and hospices for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospices or homes for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Military hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Other hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals or wards for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Mental (Psychiatric) hospitals or wards (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the deaf (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the blind (%)
People in Group quarters - Orthopedic wards and institutions for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in general hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in military hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Juvenile institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Long-term care (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for abused, dependent, and neglected children (%)
People in Group quarters - Residential treatment centers for emotionally disturbed children (%)
People in Group quarters - Training schools for juvenile delinquents (%)
People in Group quarters - Short-term care, detention or diagnostic centers for delinquent children (%)
People in Group quarters - Type of juvenile institution unknown (%)
People in Group quarters - Noninstitutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - College dormitories (includes college quarters off campus) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - On base (%)
People in Group quarters - Barracks, unaccompanied personnel housing (UPH), (Enlisted/Officer), ;and similar group living quarters for military personnel (%)
People in Group quarters - Transient quarters for temporary residents (%)
People in Group quarters - Military ships (%)
People in Group quarters - Group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes or halfway houses for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Other group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Religious group quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - Dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Agriculture workers' dormitories on farms (%)
People in Group quarters - Job Corps and vocational training facilities (%)
People in Group quarters - Other workers' dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Crews of maritime vessels (%)
People in Group quarters - Other nonhousehold living situations (%)
People in Group quarters - Other noninstitutional group quarters (%)
Residents speaking English at home (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking other language at home (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Foreign born (%)
Class of Workers - Employee of private company (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed in own incorporated business (%)
Class of Workers - Private not-for-profit wage and salary workers (%)
Class of Workers - Local government workers (%)
Class of Workers - State government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Federal government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed workers in own not incorporated business and Unpaid family workers (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - No fuel used (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - No fuel used (%)
Armed forces status - In Armed Forces (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Veteran (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Nonveteran (%)
Fatal accidents locations in years 2005-2021
Fatal accidents locations in 2005
Fatal accidents locations in 2006
Fatal accidents locations in 2007
Fatal accidents locations in 2008
Fatal accidents locations in 2009
Fatal accidents locations in 2010
Fatal accidents locations in 2011
Fatal accidents locations in 2012
Fatal accidents locations in 2013
Fatal accidents locations in 2014
Fatal accidents locations in 2015
Fatal accidents locations in 2016
Fatal accidents locations in 2017
Fatal accidents locations in 2018
Fatal accidents locations in 2019
Fatal accidents locations in 2020
Fatal accidents locations in 2021
Alcohol use - People drinking some alcohol every month (%)
Alcohol use - People not drinking at all (%)
Alcohol use - Average days/month drinking alcohol
Alcohol use - Average drinks/week
Alcohol use - Average days/year people drink much
Audiometry - Average condition of hearing (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear a whisper from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear normal voice from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - Ears ringing, roaring, buzzing (%)
Audiometry - Had a job exposure to loud noise (%)
Audiometry - Had off-work exposure to loud noise (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high blood pressure (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Checking blood pressure at home (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Frequently checking blood cholesterol (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high cholesterol level (%)
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at supermarket/grocery store
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at other stores
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on eating out
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on carryout/delivered foods
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at supermarket/grocery store (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at other stores (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on eating out (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on carryout/delivered foods (%)
Current Health Status - General health condition (%)
Current Health Status - Blood donors (%)
Current Health Status - Has blood ever tested for HIV virus (%)
Current Health Status - Left-handed people (%)
Dermatology - People using sunscreen (%)
Diabetes - Diabetics (%)
Diabetes - Had a blood test for high blood sugar (%)
Diabetes - People taking insulin (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Diet health (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Milk product consumption (# of products/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals not home prepared (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals from fast food or pizza place (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Ready-to-eat foods (#/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Frozen meals/pizza (#/month)
Drug Use - People that ever used marijuana or hashish (%)
Drug Use - Ever used hard drugs (%)
Drug Use - Ever used any form of cocaine (%)
Drug Use - Ever used heroin (%)
Drug Use - Ever used methamphetamine (%)
Health Insurance - People covered by health insurance (%)
Kidney Conditions-Urology - Avg. # of times urinating at night
Medical Conditions - People with asthma (%)
Medical Conditions - People with anemia (%)
Medical Conditions - People with psoriasis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with overweight (%)
Medical Conditions - Elderly people having difficulties in thinking or remembering (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever received blood transfusion (%)
Medical Conditions - People having trouble seeing even with glass/contacts (%)
Medical Conditions - People with arthritis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with gout (%)
Medical Conditions - People with congestive heart failure (%)
Medical Conditions - People with coronary heart disease (%)
Medical Conditions - People with angina pectoris (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had heart attack (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had stroke (%)
Medical Conditions - People with emphysema (%)
Medical Conditions - People with thyroid problem (%)
Medical Conditions - People with chronic bronchitis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with any liver condition (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had cancer or malignancy (%)
Mental Health - People who have little interest in doing things (%)
Mental Health - People feeling down, depressed, or hopeless (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble sleeping or sleeping too much (%)
Mental Health - People feeling tired or having little energy (%)
Mental Health - People with poor appetite or overeating (%)
Mental Health - People feeling bad about themself (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble concentrating on things (%)
Mental Health - People moving or speaking slowly or too fast (%)
Mental Health - People having thoughts they would be better off dead (%)
Oral Health - Average years since last visit a dentist
Oral Health - People embarrassed because of mouth (%)
Oral Health - People with gum disease (%)
Oral Health - General health of teeth and gums (%)
Oral Health - Average days a week using dental floss/device
Oral Health - Average days a week using mouthwash for dental problem
Oral Health - Average number of teeth
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to control insects (%)
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to kill weeds (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People walking or bicycling (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - Average hours a day doing sedentary activities
Physical Activity - Average hours a day watching TV or videos
Physical Activity - Average hours a day using computer
Physical Functioning - People having limitations keeping them from working (%)
Physical Functioning - People limited in amount of work they can do (%)
Physical Functioning - People that need special equipment to walk (%)
Physical Functioning - People experiencing confusion/memory problems (%)
Physical Functioning - People requiring special healthcare equipment (%)
Prescription Medications - Average number of prescription medicines taking
Preventive Aspirin Use - Adults 40+ taking low-dose aspirin (%)
Reproductive Health - Vaginal deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Cesarean deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Deliveries resulted in a live birth (%)
Reproductive Health - Pregnancies resulted in a delivery (%)
Reproductive Health - Women breastfeeding newborns (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had a hysterectomy (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had both ovaries removed (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever taken birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women taking birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used Depo-Provera or injectables (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used female hormones (%)
Sexual Behavior - People 18+ that ever had sex (vaginal, anal, or oral) (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had anal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had any sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had anal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had any kind of sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first had sex
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female vaginal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a woman (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of woman performed oral sex on in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male anal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a man (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male oral sex partners in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - People using protection when performing oral sex (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of times people have vaginal or anal sex a year
Sexual Behavior - People having sex without condom (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male vaginal sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Circumcised males 18+ (%)
Sleep Disorders - Average hours sleeping at night
Sleep Disorders - People that has trouble sleeping (%)
Smoking-Cigarette Use - People smoking cigarettes (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with smell (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with taste (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had wisdom teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had tonsils teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a loss of consciousness because of a head injury (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a broken nose or other serious injury to face or skull (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had two or more sinus infections (%)
Weight - Average height (inches)
Weight - Average weight (pounds)
Weight - Average BMI
Weight - People that are obese (%)
Weight - People that ever were obese (%)
Weight - People trying to lose weight (%)