South Denver suburbs-why are they wealthier than others? (Colorado Springs, Aurora: school districts, live in)

[tfox]

Originally Posted by JohnHAdams

Cherry Hills is in Englewood.

CHV is its own incorporated city. It is not within the city limits of Englewood. You are confusing postal addresses with the city limits of the town.

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by JohnHAdams

Cherry Hills is in Englewood. North of I-70 is nothing special for the most part...until one gets to certain areas of Boulder.

Do you live here? Sounds like you are reading some literature.

There are many "nice" areas of Thornton, Westminster, Arvada, Broomfield, Louisville, Superior and Lafayette, at least as nice as most of Highlands Ranch.

[davidv]

Originally Posted by Katiana

There are many "nice" areas of Thornton, Westminster, Arvada, Broomfield, Louisville, Superior and Lafayette, at least as nice as most of Highlands Ranch.

Yes there are. However, the north is stigmatized by its history and has never been considered to be as "nice" as the south. Consequently, the nice areas in the north are just neighborhoods and not entire areas.

For example, the Reunion area does not advertise the fact that it is part of Commerce City. There may be "exclusive" neighborhoods in the north, but there is no "exclusive" suburb in the north.

Most of the southern suburbs are really nice, with pockets of neighborhoods that are just okay. The northern suburbs are the opposite. The neighborhoods are okay with pockets of "really nice."

As for problems, the north has northeastern Denver, northern Aurora, Montbello, Commerce City, Green Valley Ranch, and parts of Thornton. While I am not afraid of any of these areas, these areas are the homes of the greatest concentration of gang members, and have significantly higher crime rates. By comparison, the roughest areas of the south are Sheridan and Englewood. A much smaller area with not nearly the same problems as the north.

The roster of "exclusive" suburbs (majority of houses sell for more than 500k) in the south include: Bow Mar, Columbine Valley, Cherry Hills Village, and Greenwood Village. Some "exclusive" neighborhoods in the south exist in parts of Grant Ranch, Littleton, Highlands Ranch, South Aurora, Ken Caryl Valley, Parker, and even the Southern Hills neighborhood Denver.

The concentration of wealth in the southern metro area is a major reason why, as a whole, the southern parts of the metro area have some of the best schools and school districts. In the north, schools reflect their neighborhoods, some really good, some so-so, and some bad.

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by davidv

The concentration of wealth in the southern metro area is a major reason why, as a whole, the southern parts of the metro area have some of the best schools and school districts. In the north, schools reflect their neighborhoods, some really good, some so-so, and some bad.

Oh, really? Douglas County schools are "good" b/c most of the students are fairly affluent, but would you call a district where the taxpayers won't vote for needed tax increases, good? It helps too, that it's all Douglas Co. instead of being broken up into "rich district, poor district". Boulder Valley, Adams 12 and Jeffco are all excellent districts up north.

Name a "bad" school district.

[JohnHAdams]

Originally Posted by tfox

CHV is its own incorporated city.

When I frequented the area...in the 80's, I was told it was part of Englewood.

Makes sense they would want to keep the taxes on elite homes, some worth 10's of millions.

I will confess to never being a homeowner there however. But I did stay at a Holiday Inn........

[tfox]

Originally Posted by davidv

Most of the southern suburbs are really nice, with pockets of neighborhoods that are just okay. The northern suburbs are the opposite. The neighborhoods are okay with pockets of "really nice."

The southern suburbs ARE mostly nice, that's true. The north IMHO is split into northeast and northwest. Northeast is Adams/Weld Counties and Northwest is Northern Jeffco/Broomfield/Boulder Counties. Northwest I would say is very similar to the south in terms of schools and overall niceness. Northeast is patchy, as you have pointed out. There is a bit of a transition zone, perhaps between Sheridan and Wadsworth.

[davidv]

Originally Posted by Katiana

Oh, really? Douglas County schools are "good" b/c most of the students are fairly affluent, but would you call a district where the taxpayers won't vote for needed tax increases, good? It helps too, that it's all Douglas Co. instead of being broken up into "rich district, poor district". Boulder Valley, Adams 12 and Jeffco are all excellent districts up north.

Name a "bad" school district.

First of all, I would say yes, DCSD is good because the families are affluent. Even though the county did not pass its last bond/budget doesn't make it bad (Remember that Jeffco voted down their last increase as well). The schools continue to perform well and will continue to do so in the future. Whether we like it or not, income is one of the primary indicators of school success. Schools with affluent students perform well, schools with poor students do not perform as well. There are exceptions, so don't bombard me with isolated examples of poor schools doing well, I could do the same with examples of poor schools doing poorly.

The three districts you mention are all very good, but if you want me to name a bad district in the north for you, here's a list:
Adams Co. Dist. 1 (Mapleton)
Adams Co. Dist. 14 (Adams City)
Adams Co. Dist. 50 (Westminster)
Brighton Public Schools are average, but just barely.

Out of all the districts in the Metro area, only Denver, Jeffco and Douglas counties consolidated. Arapahoe consolidated the districts some (CCSD is an example), but not that much. And before you complain that districts were drawn according to income, you should know that the districts were drawn to separate urban schools from rural schools. When the urban area spread to the rural areas, the citizens in the respective school districts decided that they did not want to consolidate.

If you want further proof for the affluence disparity between the north and the south, just count the number of private schools in each area. Counting only High Schools, the south has: Mullen, St. Mary's Academy, Regis Jesuit, Valor Christian, Lutheran-Parker, Denver Christian-Highlands Ranch, Colorado Academy and Kent Denver.

[chilicheesefries]

Originally Posted by davidv

Yes there are. However, the north is stigmatized by its history and has never been considered to be as "nice" as the south. Consequently, the nice areas in the north are just neighborhoods and not entire areas.

The roster of "exclusive" suburbs (majority of houses sell for more than 500k) in the south include: Bow Mar, Columbine Valley, Cherry Hills Village, and Greenwood Village. Some "exclusive" neighborhoods in the south exist in parts of Grant Ranch, Littleton, Highlands Ranch, South Aurora, Ken Caryl Valley, Parker, and even the Southern Hills neighborhood Denver.

The concentration of wealth in the southern metro area is a major reason why, as a whole, the southern parts of the metro area have some of the best schools and school districts. In the north, schools reflect their neighborhoods, some really good, some so-so, and some bad.

Great point - it also helps that the suburbs in the south metro are smaller so they can be 'exclusive' like Bow Mar, Columbine Valley, etc. Don't forget Castle Pines.

Originally Posted by Katiana

Oh, really? Douglas County schools are "good" b/c most of the students are fairly affluent, but would you call a district where the taxpayers won't vote for needed tax increases, good? It helps too, that it's all Douglas Co. instead of being broken up into "rich district, poor district". Boulder Valley, Adams 12 and Jeffco are all excellent districts up north.

Name a "bad" school district.

So Douglas County Schools became bad the minute they voted 'no'? They still are one of the top 3 in the metro area in perfomance. Then also doesn't it help that it's all Jeffco instead in 'rich district, poor district'? I don't see where the poster was saying they are bad disticts at all just that they had bad schools mixed in more than other districts that don't have them.

Originally Posted by tfox

The southern suburbs ARE mostly nice, that's true. The north IMHO is split into northeast and northwest. Northeast is Adams/Weld Counties and Northwest is Northern Jeffco/Broomfield/Boulder Counties. Northwest I would say is very similar to the south in terms of schools and overall niceness. Northeast is patchy, as you have pointed out. There is a bit of a transition zone, perhaps between Sheridan and Wadsworth.

Once you start getting into Boulder/Weld County those are less what I consider suburbs and more parts of Boulder, etc. But I do agree that those areas are similar (ie compare Broomfield to Littleton etc) in niceness but what the northern suburbs lack is the exclusive areas like Cherry Hills. And I concur that Highlands Ranch isn't an exclusive area for the most part. It has lots of houses for prices similar to Littleton, Thornton, Arvada, etc. It's the fact that that is all there is and no mixed in less affluent areas that makes it seem more affluent than it really is (ie the fact that it has no areas that aren't nice rather than that any of the areas are especially nice). There are some exclusive neighborhoods but it's not one big area of McMansions.

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by davidv

First of all, I would say yes, DCSD is good because the families are affluent. Even though the county did not pass its last bond/budget doesn't make it bad (Remember that Jeffco voted down their last increase as well). The schools continue to perform well and will continue to do so in the future. Whether we like it or not, income is one of the primary indicators of school success. Schools with affluent students perform well, schools with poor students do not perform as well. There are exceptions, so don't bombard me with isolated examples of poor schools doing well, I could do the same with examples of poor schools doing poorly.

The three districts you mention are all very good, but if you want me to name a bad district in the north for you, here's a list:
Adams Co. Dist. 1 (Mapleton)
Adams Co. Dist. 14 (Adams City)
Adams Co. Dist. 50 (Westminster)
Brighton Public Schools are average, but just barely.

Out of all the districts in the Metro area, only Denver, Jeffco and Douglas counties consolidated. Arapahoe consolidated the districts some (CCSD is an example), but not that much. And before you complain that districts were drawn according to income, you should know that the districts were drawn to separate urban schools from rural schools. When the urban area spread to the rural areas, the citizens in the respective school districts decided that they did not want to consolidate.

If you want further proof for the affluence disparity between the north and the south, just count the number of private schools in each area. Counting only High Schools, the south has: Mullen, St. Mary's Academy, Regis Jesuit, Valor Christian, Lutheran-Parker, Denver Christian-Highlands Ranch, Colorado Academy and Kent Denver.

Well, well, well. I'm glad you were willing to go on record saying some districts are "bad". Very interesting.

Who said I was going to complain about anything? Where did that come from?

I don't know all the private schools up north b/c frankly I'm not interested in them. The north does have Holy Family and Faith Christian, among others for high schools. The north also has Peak to Peak Charter in good ole Lafayette (a city some think is slummy) which is consistently highly rated.

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by chilicheesefries

So Douglas County Schools became bad the minute they voted 'no'? They still are one of the top 3 in the metro area in perfomance. Then also doesn't it help that it's all Jeffco instead in 'rich district, poor district'? I don't see where the poster was saying they are bad disticts at all just that they had bad schools mixed in more than other districts that don't have them.

The school equalization act is supposed to help with the "rich district, poor district" issue.

The poster made a list of three "bad" districts, in his opinion.