Denver without a car (Center: 2014, movie theaters, maintenance)

[MissTerri]

Originally Posted by robertgoodman

You can easily live downtown without a car. The grocery store complaint is very overblown. A grocery store is just one part of the equation and your average person does not go there often enough for it to be prioritized over other things you use on a daily basis within walking distance. Work is important and where you live is important, as well as a variety of stores/restaurants/cafes/etc (not just grocery stores). Downtown has more in most of those categories of stores, better access to bus routes, cycling routes, and light rail (as well as jobs).

It depends on the person and their needs which is why I said, "If I was going to live car free in Denver". I go to the grocery store much more frequently then I go to restaurants, cafe's, boutiques, etc. I do agree though that being able to walk to work would be the most ideal scenario. There are other areas of Denver that have great access to public transit, cycling routes and light rail with access to cafe's, restaurants and grocery shopping. Baker comes to mind as one. It all depends on what one wants to be able to walk to I suppose. People have different desires and needs.

[robertgoodman]

Originally Posted by MissTerri

It depends on the person and their needs which is why I said, "If I was going to live car free in Denver".

You concluded the paragraph with "There isn't a grocery store in downtown Denver at this point in time so downtown specifically does not seem like the best choice for being car free." That is the only reason I responded as I wasn't sure if you were referring to everyone in general or just yourself with that sentence. By your response I am assuming that you meant just yourself.

You're right everyone has different needs. If you need to go to a grocery store daily and cannot do weekly trips with stopping at convenient stores/pharmacies/small markets in between for random items then downtown won't work, as the daily 0.5-1.5 mile trip to a grocery store on a bike, walking, or bus will be a PITA.

Baker is a great neighborhood it just doesn't have the same transit access to most of Denver and the distribution of b-cycle stations that downtown does. There's pro's and con's of every neighborhood when looking at it from a carfree perspective, a grocery store is just part of it.

[robertgoodman]

Originally Posted by denverian

I'm pretty sure I read that King Soopers is putting in a store somewhere around Union Station. Maybe a Whole Foods too.

Whole Foods is still unofficial but very likely, although that may take a while before it's done. The King Soopers is under construction (20th and Chestnut) and is supposed to be open before next summer.

On the eastern side of downtown there are grocery stores within commonly accepted walking distance as well. The western side -which is more residential- was the one mainly lacking with only vitamin cottage and a few convenience stores.

IMO the problem is very overblown by politicians and urbanists alike, it's really not that bad.

[CHI-SF-DEN]

Originally Posted by Snikt

One of the main reasons people live in Denver is the mountains, outdoor recreation and things surrounding that. You'd pretty much be removing all of that, as mass transit doesn't really go to the mountains or many areas outside of metro Denver.

Might also take forever to get places if having to rely on buses. Now that Google Maps does bus routes I see times pop up when I route for directions sometimes. For example last night I drove to Park Meadows Mall for some specialty shops (many of which don't exist in downtown Denver). Google Maps said it was 15 minutes by car or 2 hours by bus from my location (pretty near a bus route).

My fiance and I relocated to Denver from Chicago and after 6 years car free we did buy one that we share in Denver. We live at 15th and Central, so for 90% of our activities in Denver proper, we do it without a car. The main issue FOR US, was access to the mountains and all the things that the Denver metro has to offer. While Denver is lacking as a true urban center like Chicago, Colorado as a state blows Illinois out of the water, and we really wanted to be able to take advantage of all it has to offer. Also, as snikt commented, public transit can greatly extend trip times on non-congested, non-standard commute routes. My fiance has a 15 min commute by car to I70 and Ward, while the same trips is 35-45 mins by bus. In short you can do it, but it depends on your priorities and how much you want to be able to take advantage of things outside of Denver.

[denverian]

Originally Posted by robertgoodman

Whole Foods is still unofficial but very likely, although that may take a while before it's done. The King Soopers is under construction (20th and Chestnut) and is supposed to be open before next summer.

On the eastern side of downtown there are grocery stores within commonly accepted walking distance as well. The western side -which is more residential- was the one mainly lacking with only vitamin cottage and a few convenience stores.

IMO the problem is very overblown by politicians and urbanists alike, it's really not that bad.

There's the King Soopers at Speer/Colfax. Not that it's really an easy walk from downtown proper.

I like the little markets all over in NYC where you can just pop in on your way from the subway and grab what you need for dinner. And then when you need a Costco run for pizzas and Beefarino, you just borrow your friend Jerry's Saab

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by KaaBoom

Depends on your lifestyle, and where Downtown you are living. At very least it would mean a lot of walking. Example: you might have to walk miles, carrying your groceries from the nearest supermarket. It might even require a bus ride for that.

As for how efficient Denver's transit system is. There is only one 24 hour a day route in the entire city, and even that route doesn't run as often as major routes do in other cities. RTD I believe has no plans to change that. As a matter of fact, they keep cutting bus service.

Just looking at a random sampling of routes, there are several that are close to 24 hr. service.
RTD

[KaaBoom]

Originally Posted by Katiana

Just looking at a random sampling of routes, there are several that are close to 24 hr. service.
RTD

Take a look at the new schedules. They are cutting all light rail service after 11PM to once an hour, except for Friday and Saturday nights. That means they are trying to wean people off riding the trains late at night, so they can cut that service entirely. Once they do that they can also cut the late night busses that feed those light rail trains. They know that people are not going to wait an hour for a train in the middle of the night, and thats what RTD want's. It will save them a lot of money not having to provide that service.

RTD has publicly stated that they are not interested in providing late night service except on weekends, and they are sure the hell not interested in providing 24 hour service. Which might be OK for someone who wants to go bar hopping in LoDo, but will never work for transit dependent people who need service 24/7. RTD is not a 24 hour service except for East Colfax, and that will not change in the foreseeable future.

RTD| Final Service Changes | August 2014

[RonAriba]

Originally Posted by robertgoodman

The grocery store complaint is very overblown.

Not so. Depending on were you live in downtown Denver, it is a big deal. Especially, If you live in LoDo Ball Park, Riverfront, etc. However, there is a King Soopers coming soon at 20th and Chestnut Place. Should open in Spring of 2015. Also, from what I understand Whole Foods is not going to happen.

Like other post have mentioned: car2go, B-Bicycle, Hertz, etc. all offer transportation alternatives around downtown.

[TigerLily24]

Originally Posted by robertgoodman

You can easily live downtown without a car. The grocery store complaint is very overblown. A grocery store is just one part of the equation and your average person does not go there often enough for it to be prioritized over other things you use on a daily basis within walking distance. Work is important and where you live is important, as well as a variety of stores/restaurants/cafes/etc (not just grocery stores). Downtown has more in most of those categories of stores, better access to bus routes, cycling routes, and light rail (as well as jobs).

I agree with this.

Thinking about what I consider very livable areas:

There is a Safeway store right next to Macy's at the Cherry Creek Mall and another on 6th and Corona.
There is at least one King Soopers on Colorado Blvd. as well as a Super Target.
There is a Whole Foods also at the Cherry Creek Mall and Trader Joe's on Colorado Blvd.
There are countless small bodega type stores along Broadway, Lincoln, Colorado...

And, there are bus routes that pass all of these locations.

I could live very happily within a few miles of any of those areas without a car.
And, if a big stock-up is an absolute must, there is always this:

Home | car2go Denvercar2go Denver

[denverian]

Originally Posted by TigerLily24

I agree with this.

Thinking about what I consider very livable areas:

There is a Safeway store right next to Macy's at the Cherry Creek Mall and another on 6th and Corona.
There is at least one King Soopers on Colorado Blvd. as well as a Super Target.
There is a Whole Foods also at the Cherry Creek Mall and Trader Joe's on Colorado Blvd.
There are countless small bodega type stores along Broadway, Lincoln, Colorado...

And, there are bus routes that pass all of these locations.

I could live very happily within a few miles of any of those areas without a car.
And, if a big stock-up is an absolute must, there is always this:

Home | car2go Denvercar2go Denver

A Trader Joe's is supposed to open Sept. 5 at 7th and Grant. (across from Benny's). Not exactly downtown, but in a walkable neighborhood.