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Pot smokers just want it legalized. They dont think of the type of problems they may cause. More DUI's. They dont want that out for everyone to hear about. Or more drug testing at the work place. Get hurt at work, and they drug test you, you come up positive. No more job. The Dumbing of America, and we just keep helping it along.
I don't smoke pot, but am very much pro legalization. The sky is not falling. Life in Denver is essentially the same as before.
It's not all good, but the fact that our jails are not being filled with non violent pot users is reason enough for me to say that this has NOT worked out.
I'd love to see your back up your assertions with data.
Last edited by Mike from back east; 09-20-2015 at 03:10 PM..
Reason: I'm sure you meant NOT
So I wonder if Oregon, Washington, and Alaska see these same types of complaints? Well, maybe not Alaska since it is so far away from the continental US and casual users can't get a cheap bus ticket there.
As a hiring manager, I have seen several applicants who were offended when I told them of our drug screen. Their protest of "but this is Colorado" doesn't hold sway in an industry where we can't afford the risk in work comp issues or loss of revenue with Federal business.
Looking at Nation Incident Based Reporting, crime in Denver is up 7% overall in Denver. More Fire Depts are responding to butane explosions due to home hash oil production, and potential poisionings due to unintended ingestion. Traffic fatalities with marijuana impared operators has increase 100% since 2007. Colorado youth MJ users number 3% above the national average. 48% of arrests in Denver are MJ impared, up 16% from 2007. Seizure by highway patrols of MJ leaving the state is up 397% since 2007.
MJ grow operations have created a run on commercial real estate. As a cash business, many are paying double normal square footage rates for occupancy. Commercial space has become scarce. Great news for building owners, bad news for other businesses looking at expansion. This could also impact other new business start ups or organizations looking to relocate.
Water, already a hot topic in the region, is being consumed at ever increasing rates for grow facilities. Contention between Fed policy and water is creating a legal quagmire for municipalities and operators.
Revenue is huge, depending on source, 40-60 million dollars. THe state is having to find ways to use the revenue and may be issuing refunds for citizens.
I personally could care less about its use. Life here doesn't seem radically changed. Homeless populations in various areas still seem consistent although ages of them seem lower.
Is it a good thing, I think the jury is still out on that.
So I wonder if Oregon, Washington, and Alaska see these same types of complaints? Well, maybe not Alaska since it is so far away from the continental US and casual users can't get a cheap bus ticket there.
As a hiring manager, I have seen several applicants who were offended when I told them of our drug screen. Their protest of "but this is Colorado" doesn't hold sway in an industry where we can't afford the risk in work comp issues or loss of revenue with Federal business.
I agree that this is a problem. This is one of the many reasons why things need to get sorted out at a federal level.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TCHP
Looking at Nation Incident Based Reporting, crime in Denver is up 7% overall in Denver. More Fire Depts are responding to butane explosions due to home hash oil production, and potential poisionings due to unintended ingestion.
"the numbers may be a bit misleading. She says the apparent increase in crime is related to the Denver Police Department changing the way it reported stats in 2013, as well as changing policies that increased the number of petty citations but decreased violent and property crimes."
Quote:
Originally Posted by TCHP
Traffic fatalities with marijuana impared operators has increase 100% since 2007.
Why are you picking 2007 as you reference point and not 2011? I found the study you are referring to and it appears that the data is not official and that the group that released it has a big anti legalization agenda. I also noticed in their numbers that the big jump occurred between 2010 and 2011. this was prior to recreational marijuana being legal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TCHP
Colorado youth MJ users number 3% above the national average.
This is an incredibly misleading statistic that you posted because it completely lacks context. Do you know where we ranked prior to legal pot? Already higher than the national average.
This is the most comprehensive study on the effects of legal pot on teen use. They find no correlation.
"Our findings provide the strongest evidence to date that marijuana use by teenagers does not increase after a state legalizes medical marijuana. Rather, up to now, in the states that passed medical marijuana laws, adolescent marijuana use was already higher than in other states. Because early adolescent use of marijuana can lead to many long term harmful outcomes, identifying the factors that actually play a role in adolescent use should be a high priority,” said Dr. Hasin.
This study supports the 2013 report from the Colorado Department of Health and Environment that found that high school marijuana use decreased from 22% in 2011 to 20% in 2013. The data was collected before recreational marijuana was made legal, but it did demonstrate that legalizing medical marijuana did not send the message that it was okay to use. Dr. Larry Wolk, the CDPHE director said, “As with tobacco, youth prevention campaigns will help ensure adult legalization of marijuana in Colorado does not impact the health of Colorado kids.”
Quote:
Originally Posted by TCHP
48% of arrests in Denver are MJ impared, up 16% from 2007.
This lacks causation. You are inferring that the arrests would not have otherwise happened without pot being present in the equation. There is zero evidence to support that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TCHP
Seizure by highway patrols of MJ leaving the state is up 397% since 2007.
That does not surprise me one bit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TCHP
MJ grow operations have created a run on commercial real estate. As a cash business, many are paying double normal square footage rates for occupancy. Commercial space has become scarce. Great news for building owners, bad news for other businesses looking at expansion. This could also impact other new business start ups or organizations looking to relocate.
The run has largely been on warehouse space. Small retail rates are up a bit as well, but the quantity of space versus the number of dispensaries means that pot hasn't had too large an impact on retail. Warehouse is a different story. I work with both and am speaking from experience.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TCHP
Water, already a hot topic in the region, is being consumed at ever increasing rates for grow facilities. Contention between Fed policy and water is creating a legal quagmire for municipalities and operators.
Revenue is huge, depending on source, 40-60 million dollars. THe state is having to find ways to use the revenue and may be issuing refunds for citizens.
I personally could care less about its use. Life here doesn't seem radically changed. Homeless populations in various areas still seem consistent although ages of them seem lower.
Is it a good thing, I think the jury is still out on that.
While I agree that things are far from perfect, I think that this was a big step int he right direction towards a more just society.
Had you been here in the past 5 years? How do you know legal pot is to blame for any of your gripes? This city has not changed remarkably since pot was legalized.
As for bringing a 5 year old in to dispensary, I bring my kids in to the liquor store and no at bats an eye. How if that different?
Um how do I know legal pot is to blame for encountering pot everywhere you go in public places? Is that a real question?
I've never seen a proprietor literally slam a door in someone's face when they brought a kid into a liquor store (though I myself would never bring a kid into a liquor store, so there's that) but that's what happened in Denver. The owner was clearly not happy that they brought the kid in and he wasn't afraid to show it.
In a social climate where not everyone is exactly happy about legalization in the first place, it does kind of smack of thumbing your nose, especially in a place where they have to card you once when you first walk in and once before you make a purchase and in a store where the lobby and the sales floor can't even be in the same open space. Why would you test the waters of society's tolerance for legalization by doing dumb crap that might get a seller's license taken away?
Very few people in Denver seem to have anything even approaching common sense. Sorry to hear that it was like that before legalization, as well.
I practically grew up on barstools in west Baltimore as a kid, from 1st grade on up. Corner saloons are / were a normal part of life back then. I'm fine, not addicted to anything, fully functioning, have a glass or two of wine at home in the evening, never while out, never have smoked, toked, snorted, injected or ingested any substance other than beer or wine in moderation.
Weed has been everywhere for years, it's practically a joke, and is a joke if you watch Cheech and Chong or Fast Times at Ridgemont High.
Denver attracts people for many reasons, the dry air is a big draw, smoking weed in Denver sure beats smoking it in muggy climates with lots of bugs.
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Um how do I know legal pot is to blame for encountering pot everywhere you go in public places? Is that a real question?
I've never seen a proprietor literally slam a door in someone's face when they brought a kid into a liquor store (though I myself would never bring a kid into a liquor store, so there's that) but that's what happened in Denver. The owner was clearly not happy that they brought the kid in and he wasn't afraid to show it.
In a social climate where not everyone is exactly happy about legalization in the first place, it does kind of smack of thumbing your nose, especially in a place where they have to card you once when you first walk in and once before you make a purchase and in a store where the lobby and the sales floor can't even be in the same open space. Why would you test the waters of society's tolerance for legalization by doing dumb crap that might get a seller's license taken away?
Very few people in Denver seem to have anything even approaching common sense. Sorry to hear that it was like that before legalization, as well.
I'm sorry, did I say something that offended you?
As for my question about whether or not you had been here before, I was referring to your comment about homelessness obviously.
While I agree that a seller should not allow any violations of the law by letting people come in to the stores with kids, I don't understand why this was such a big deal to you. Sounds like the owner was being a jerk instead of explaining the rules to the parents.
Regarding kids in liquor stores, a little context might help here..... Our grocery stores do not sell full strength beer or wine. It's very common to see kids in liquor stores in Denver with their parents because after grocery shopping, we will often stop in the liquor stores that are next door for a six pack or bottle of wine. Is it that hard for you to understand that someone used to this type of scenario might think it is alright to bring a kid inside a pot shop? If not, where do you draw the line with children's expose to alcohol? Would you buy a bottle of wine at the grocery store with a kid in your cart? Would you drink a beer at at BBQ in front of a kid? Honestly, what's the difference?
It is definitely a paradigm shift for people to view pot like alcohol, but it is happening rather quickly here. Basically what I am saying is that if it bothers you, it's your problem, not ours.
In any case, yes we see pot downtown. We saw it before as well. We also had a lot of homeless people downtown prior to legalization. This has not changed remarkably.
I don't smoke pot, and I never see it in my neighborhood which is right in the city.
If the sight of pot offends you, you should stay away from downtown Denver. From the sounds of it, you are going to anyway so no big deal.
As for alternatives to legalization, I guess it's safe to assume that you are in favor of fining and locking people up for pot use? Not how I want my tax dollars spent thank you. I would rather the state collects money from people using pot, instead of spending it to try, convict, and then lock them up.
This is what the OP was interested in. I gave her a side-by-side comparison of Raleigh vs. Denver with respect to marijuana use. Since I live in Durham and go to Raleigh almost every day and just recently came back from a trip to Denver, I told her what she wanted to know: that she will be confronted with pot use in public places almost everywhere she goes in Denver and that it is not like Raleigh at all in that way. Since she indicated that would be a problem for her, I let her know that, unfortunately, that's what she will be dealing with if she decides to go to Denver.
This is what the OP was interested in. I gave her a side-by-side comparison of Raleigh vs. Denver with respect to marijuana use. Since I live in Durham and go to Raleigh almost every day and just recently came back from a trip to Denver, I told her what she wanted to know: that she will be confronted with pot use in public places almost everywhere she goes in Denver and that it is not like Raleigh at all in that way. Since she indicated that would be a problem for her, I let her know that, unfortunately, that's what she will be dealing with if she decides to go to Denver.
You really think you will be confronted by pot use everywhere you go in Denver? That's news to me. If you aren't downtown, you rarely see it.
You really think you will be confronted by pot use everywhere you go in Denver? That's news to me. If you aren't downtown, you rarely see it.
We went several places all over downtown (which I'm sure she would be doing if she lived there) and pot was all over, even in the middle of the day. She said she wondered if pot use in Denver was akin to drinking and she could just steer clear of certain areas, by this I'm assuming she means is it like in the Triangle where you can just avoid going to Franklin Street in Chapel Hill on Friday and Saturday night and hence not even really know you're in a college town where people are stumbling through certain streets after dark.
No, avoiding pot use in Denver is not like avoiding Franklin Street on the weekends. There are dispensaries all over downtown. She will smell it pretty much where ever she goes. She will see people blazing up several times a day in spite of the fact that it's supposed to be illegal to smoke in public.
That's what I experienced when I visited two weeks ago. I'm just answering her questions.
If she wants to move to Denver, and she doesn't want to encounter pot use, then she should know that she would just have to avoid downtown altogether while she lives there. This is a significant factor in her decision making process, according to her.
We went several places all over downtown (which I'm sure she would be doing if she lived there) and pot was all over, even in the middle of the day. She said she wondered if pot use in Denver was akin to drinking and she could just steer clear of certain areas, by this I'm assuming she means is it like in the Triangle where you can just avoid going to Franklin Street in Chapel Hill on Friday and Saturday night and hence not even really know you're in a college town where people are stumbling through certain streets after dark.
No, avoiding pot use in Denver is not like avoiding Franklin Street on the weekends. There are dispensaries all over downtown. She will smell it pretty much where ever she goes. She will see people blazing up several times a day in spite of the fact that it's supposed to be illegal to smoke in public.
That's what I experienced when I visited two weeks ago. I'm just answering her questions.
If she wants to move to Denver, and she doesn't want to encounter pot use, then she should know that she would just have to avoid downtown altogether while she lives there. This is a significant factor in her decision making process, according to her.
Coming from a relatively small metro area of 1.2 million, and not having spent time in the neighborhoods in Denver, I could see how you might not understand how much there is in this city that is not downtown. Plenty of people live here and rarely go there because there is so much going on in their neighborhoods.
Is there pot downtown? Yes.
Is it burning in trash barrels on every corner? Of course not.
I rode my bike downtown last weekend and didn't see any pot. I rode my bike to 5 Points this morning for a bagel and didn't see any pot. I went to The Book of Mormon a couple of Fridays ago at the DCPA and had drinks afterwards and did not see any pot. The picture you are painting would make my experiences impossible.
And you very clearly are not just answering her questions. There's a great deal of anger, name calling, and judgement in your posts.
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