Are toll roads a failure in Colorado? (Denver, Longmont: real estate, to buy)

[Mr. Analyst]

Originally Posted by Hschlick84

What CDOT needs to do is break the contract on E-470 and Northwest Pkwy, and turn it back to the people. How much would taxes be if it's converted to a public road?

With all the new tax base relocating here, I can't imagine it'd be that big of a hit. Probably a few cents or a few dollars per year.

[robertgoodman]

E470 is valued at 1.2 billion and last I looked it takes 50 million a year or so to operate and maintain (ignoring debt service). So it wouldn't be cheap.

If CDOT wants to take it over they are better off waiting the 60 years or so before they can exercise their option to take it over from the state legislature formed E470 public highway authority. That way the initial construction costs and land acquisitions should have been paid off.

[Mr. Analyst]

Originally Posted by robertgoodman

E470 is valued at 1.2 billion and last I looked it takes 50 million a year or so to operate and maintain (ignoring debt service). So it wouldn't be cheap.

If CDOT wants to take it over they are better off waiting the 60 years or so before they can exercise their option to take it over from the state legislature formed E470 public highway authority. That way the initial construction costs and land acquisitions should have been paid off.

Time to start using some of that that pot tax revenue (~$76MM in 2014).

[Count David]

Originally Posted by Mr. Analyst

Time to start using some of that that pot tax revenue (~$76MM in 2014).

Isn't that money already earmarked to educate our high kids?

[Mr. Analyst]

Originally Posted by David Aguilar

Isn't that money already earmarked to educate our high kids?

Yeah, I heard about that recently. I don't know the details, but it sounds like they want to appropriate some of the money towards pot education in schools. I don't know why they just don't leave drug education up to the parents. I remember doing DARE in middle school and thinking how pointless it was. It didn't prevent anyone I knew from doing drugs.

Truth be told, I'd rather it go towards infrastructure and traditional education like math, science and engineering, technical trades trades, art, and literature.

[robertgoodman]

Originally Posted by David Aguilar

Isn't that money already earmarked to educate our high kids?

Screw that, people living in mcmansions in douglas county cannot afford to pay a toll for their oversized suv on the way to the airport for yet another vacation.

Priorities people.

[Count David]

Originally Posted by Mr. Analyst

Yeah, I heard about that recently. I don't know the details, but it sounds like they want to appropriate some of the money towards pot education in schools. I don't know why they just don't leave drug education up to the parents. I remember doing DARE in middle school and thinking how pointless it was. It didn't prevent anyone I knew from doing drugs.

Truth be told, I'd rather it go towards infrastructure and traditional education like math, science and engineering, technical trades trades, art, and literature.

I didn't think D.A.R.E. or even SmokeFree 2000 were pointless, I didn't feel drug education in 9th grade health class was pointless either. For some kids, that's the only anti-drug propaganda they get.

The only pot education our kids are getting now is where to get it.

I don't really care where the money goes, as long as it goes to something worthwhile.

Originally Posted by robertgoodman

Screw that, people living in mcmansions in douglas county cannot afford to pay a toll for their oversized suv on the way to the airport for yet another vacation.

Priorities people.

I know. Those poor people.

I avoid all the toll roads at all costs. I like not paying for something I don't use. I'll "suffer" with the poor masses.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by Mr. Analyst

Yeah, I heard about that recently. I don't know the details, but it sounds like they want to appropriate some of the money towards pot education in schools. I don't know why they just don't leave drug education up to the parents. I remember doing DARE in middle school and thinking how pointless it was. It didn't prevent anyone I knew from doing drugs.

Truth be told, I'd rather it go towards infrastructure and traditional education like math, science and engineering, technical trades trades, art, and literature.

A portion goes toward pot education in schools, but the lions share ($40M) goes towards school construction and maintenance. 15% of the sales tax goes towards local government. The other 85% of the sales tax, the 2.9% sales tax, and whatever is left of the 15% exercise tax after the $40M towards school construction goes to a cash fund for regulatory enforcement and other needs.

I don't think that trying to buy out E-470 for "the people" is the best use of these remaining funds.

[davidv]

Originally Posted by jwiley

Oh yes, blame it all on tabor, that is the problem. Our state is not failing to collect enough revenue, they are choosing to spend it elsewhere, such as

Originally Posted by jwiley

nice big million dollar signs entering different cities.

1. To which signs are you referring. I have yet to see a million dollar sign. Please enlighten me.
2. I would be very surprised if the state were paying for these signs instead of the local government.

Originally Posted by jwiley

They have the money to subsidize light rail and plenty of other services,

The money for light rail comes from RTD. Some of that money comes from the Federal government and is funneled through the state, but the money doesn't come from the state. Incidentally, the money from the Feds is earmarked for mass transit, so it cannot be used in other capacities.

Originally Posted by jwiley

and even build roads that they decide to kills us on tolls for. The toll roads are being put in place to help nickel and dime us all, just like all the little fees for every service you need from the government, but those fees do not count against tabor so critics of tabor love to ignore it.

Tolls are user fees. Critics of TABOR recognize this. Conservatives LOVE user fees, until they have to pay for them.

[poppunk]

Originally Posted by SkyDog77

Interesting. Does the same phenomenon occur with the addition of a tolled lane?

That's not as agreed upon by transportation experts and economists. A lot of economists believe that allowing drivers to self-select pricing on an added toll lane doesn't act the same as an additional free lane. Congestion pricing an entire road (pay by the time of day based on congestion) when the other options are limited is pretty easy to measure, but a mixed road isn't as clear.

The implementation of it as a HOV lane could have a significant impact as well, although it is something else that is hard to measure as well. If the people using it as such would have typically driven in different cars it wins. In the case of the Denver RTD system, the ability of mass transit to use the lanes increases the number of people moving on the road while not adding congestion in the non-toll lanes.

In a mathematically perfect world, people would pay on all roads based on their vehicle's contribution to road degradation, their contribution to congestion based on conditions, and their vehicle's impact on the environment. Few people would like to be charged a la carte in this manner, but it would be significantly more efficient than "free" roads where people make a lot of sub-optimal decisions about when and how much to drive.