Give me 10 reasons NOT to move to Denver (Lakewood, Grand Junction: real estate market, attorneys)

[Froud]

Lets calm.look at the user's name.i doubt he was really trying to insult anyone.that is likely just how he talks,even to good friends.

"but he"

yeah yeah i know i know but moving on......

[steve22]

Originally Posted by Katiana

2. If you are a non-native, you may get a lot of crap. And it won't all be in jest.

This is probably the one thing that irritates me the most about living in CO. Depending on where you are, there is this incredibly off-putting, self-entitled xenophobic attitude you'll get from certain people if you're a transplant from elsewhere. I've seen bumper stickers on cars, with the same green-and-white mountain pattern background of the CO license plates, with nice little phrases on them like "No Vacancy", "Native", and even "Welcome to Colorado. Now leave".

Obnoxious and hypocritical. For one thing, the true "natives" of this state are currently living on reservations, b/c these geniuses' ancestors took their land & forced them out. I don't see them giving it back voluntarily. How does that give them any moral ground to stand on?

Furthermore, in this country, the constitution grants you the right to live anywhere you choose. It does not, on the other hand, entitle you to live anywhere at the exclusion of anyone else, just b/c you were there first. If it's become too crowded, expensive, not the same as it was 20 years ago, can't find a job, well, tough. Welcome to the USA in the 21st century- it's getting crowded everywhere. How 'bout if YOU don't like it, or you can't make it here, then YOU leave. Sorry about the rant- but this "I was here first, I'm entitled to be here and you aren't" 'tude I've encountered way too often in CO really bothers me.

[jazzlover]

Originally Posted by steve22

This is probably the one thing that irritates me the most about living in CO. Depending on where you are, there is this incredibly off-putting, self-entitled xenophobic attitude you'll get from certain people if you're a transplant from elsewhere. I've seen bumper stickers on cars, with the same green-and-white mountain pattern background of the CO license plates, with nice little phrases on them like "No Vacancy", "Native", and even "Welcome to Colorado. Now leave".

Obnoxious and hypocritical. For one thing, the true "natives" of this state are currently living on reservations, b/c these geniuses' ancestors took their land & forced them out. I don't see them giving it back voluntarily. How does that give them any moral ground to stand on?

Furthermore, in this country, the constitution grants you the right to live anywhere you choose. It does not, on the other hand, entitle you to live anywhere at the exclusion of anyone else, just b/c you were there first. If it's become too crowded, expensive, not the same as it was 20 years ago, can't find a job, well, tough. Welcome to the USA in the 21st century- it's getting crowded everywhere. How 'bout if YOU don't like it, or you can't make it here, then YOU leave. Sorry about the rant- but this "I was here first, I'm entitled to be here and you aren't" 'tude I've encountered way too often in CO really bothers me.

You know what, how would you like if I walked into your home--uninvited--started telling you and your family how to live your life, why I'm so much better than you because I just moved into your home, that I'm more deserving to live there just by how much money I have or how much smarter I am than you backwards country bumpkins, how the way you've made your living doesn't suit me, and I tell you that the fact that you and your family may have lived in your home for decades or many generations and any heritage or traditions that you may have from that are "irrelevant" to me?" Then, when you start to protest about what I've just said and done, I say to you, "If you don't like it, why don't YOU leave?"

And you wonder why some "natives" go slap that sticker on their car?

I did not act like that when I moved to another state for several years, and I got along fine there. But plenty of people moving to Colorado DO have that kind of cruddy attitude, and it does make many long-time Colorado residents resentful.

[formercalifornian]

Since when are we uninvited, Jazzlover? Colorado is actively courting businesses from other parts of the country and has been for some time. Seems to me that Colorado has issued an invitation. That said, I agree with you that an entitlement mentality is offensive, but it's hardly unique to transplants. Plenty of natives have it, too, as you've so eloquently pointed out.

Interestingly, I never heard the kind of anti-transplant rhetoric in my native state of Ohio that I hear in Colorado, despite many of the same changes. My own grandfather lost a farm that his family had held for generations due to eminent domain when the local Air Force base expanded and a new highway interchange was built to handle the increased traffic. I'm sure he was angry and disappointed, but I never heard him rail on those who came to work at the base or blame them for stealing his way of life. He was always welcoming to others, no matter what their origins. Perhaps this is why the midwest has such a reputation for friendliness, while Colorado does not.

[vegaspilgrim]

I agree, formercalifornian. And interestingly, there is no ideology of nativism here in Arizona either. People here come from all over, from California, from Mexico, but also from the Midwest-- you see TONS of Illinois, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Ohio, and Michigan license plates all over here. A lot of Colorado plates too, especially during this time of the year. Arizona has got to be the most welcoming, friendly state in the nation. People here could care less where you are from! I do actually think overall Colorado is welcoming, it's just a disgruntled vocal minority that isn't. The difference between CO and AZ is in AZ you don't even have that vocal minority. In fact, AZ is friendly to a fault; they could use a little bit of nativism to slow the population growth down a bit and make it more manageable.

[jazzlover]

Originally Posted by vegaspilgrim

I agree, formercalifornian. And interestingly, there is no ideology of nativism here in Arizona either. People here come from all over, from California, from Mexico, but also from the Midwest-- you see TONS of Illinois, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Ohio, and Michigan license plates all over here. A lot of Colorado plates too, especially during this time of the year. Arizona has got to be the most welcoming, friendly state in the nation. People here could care less where you are from! I do actually think overall Colorado is welcoming, it's just a disgruntled vocal minority that isn't. The difference between CO and AZ is in AZ you don't even have that vocal minority. In fact, AZ is friendly to a fault; they could use a little bit of nativism to slow the population growth down a bit and make it more manageable.

Want to know how it gets "up close and personal?" A few years ago, I was in public service and actually was trying to help a guy who just moved to Colorado from California. My thanks for that (because he wanted to break a long-standing Colorado law, and I very politely told him he couldn't do it) was for him to get in my face, poke me in the chest, and say, "I can't wait until we run all of you 'good ol' boy' native Colorado sons-of-b****es out of here, so we can run this state the way we want." I know all Californians, or any other state, aren't like that, but that kind of attitude will stick in your craw for a long time--and, sorry, plenty of transplants have it. I spent a number of years in that former career dealing with them.

[formercalifornian]

Originally Posted by jazzlover

Want to know how it gets "up close and personal?" A few years ago, I was in public service and actually was trying to help a guy who just moved to Colorado from California. My thanks for that (because he wanted to break a long-standing Colorado law, and I very politely told him he couldn't do it) was for him to get in my face, poke me in the chest, and say, "I can't wait until we run all of you 'good ol' boy' native Colorado sons-of-b****es out of here, so we can run this state the way we want." I know all Californians, or any other state, aren't like that, but that kind of attitude will stick in your craw for a long time--and, sorry, plenty of transplants have it. I spent a number of years in that former career dealing with them.

I am truly sorry that you had that experience. I would have been angry, too. I'm heartened to read that you know all Californians are not like that, because sometimes it seems as if you think we're all the same.

[vegaspilgrim]

Originally Posted by jazzlover

Want to know how it gets "up close and personal?" A few years ago, I was in public service and actually was trying to help a guy who just moved to Colorado from California. My thanks for that (because he wanted to break a long-standing Colorado law, and I very politely told him he couldn't do it) was for him to get in my face, poke me in the chest, and say, "I can't wait until we run all of you 'good ol' boy' native Colorado sons-of-b****es out of here, so we can run this state the way we want." I know all Californians, or any other state, aren't like that, but that kind of attitude will stick in your craw for a long time--and, sorry, plenty of transplants have it. I spent a number of years in that former career dealing with them.

That's absolutely horrible. If it were me and if there were no laws I would have wanted to deck that guy across the face. I can honestly say though I've never personally encountered Californians like that. I'm not doubting there are people like that out there somewhere, but I've never encountered that. Most ex-Californians I know are decent middle class people who got pushed out of their state for one reason or another-- mainly the high cost of living. Ironically, I'm only one $500 confirmation deposit away from living in California myself, in the middle of Los Angeles, the core of the "evil empire," if I decide to enroll at USC for their 1 year MS in Accounting program. If I were to go there.... does that mean I would become "one of them"?

[Katarina Witt]

if I decide to enroll at USC for their 1 year MS in Accounting program. If I were to go there.... does that mean I would become "one of them"?

No. And I have never heard a Californian say anything like that, and I've met a lot over the years.

[sberdrow]

Originally Posted by Wisteria

I agree about the air quality. I lived in Colorado for five years (mostly Boulder) and in Denver for over 6 months. The air was so bad that I literally had to shove a towel against the door because of the particulates coming in. When you go outside (I'm not sure if they have banned fireplaces now), you could literally swallow the particulates in the "red" air. It was gross. Granted, it's mostly when there are air inversions, but there are definitely enough that I wouldn't move there if one had asthma or any breathing problems.

I was just back again this summer, and the air was fine then (no inversions at that time of year), and downtown was much nicer than it used to be. Lots of young people.

Anyplace is a give and take. If you feel drawn to it and don't have asthma, then go for it. Good luck to you.

first time I arrived at denver, I thougth of the bronco colors of Blue and Orange, as I noticed the oarange smog against the blue sky. Man was that a huge disapointment.