Lowry and Stapleton (Denver, Aurora, Arvada: renting, crime, credit)

[bullfish15]

Originally Posted by steveindenver

Incorrect. There are quite a few areas within the city limits that lack sidewalks. Much of the development in the 50's east of Colorado lacks sidewalks. Moreover, these areas seem to be missing the miles of concrete and pebble pathways, parks, playgrounds, tennis courts, etc.

Isn't it ironic that only the city neighborhoods are the ones without "miles of concrete and pebble pathways, parks, playgrounds, tennis courts". I don't think many suburbs are lacking these amenities.

Originally Posted by steveindenver

Yes as oil prices rise I suspect you are correct, people are going to move further from the city and services.

Aren't oil prices falling? Isn't oil approaching $100 a barrel? Doesn't the falling dollar have something to do with gas prices? I think people buying overpriced houses and defaulting on the loan is contributing to the dollar. If you can afford a $500,000 Stapleton house mortgage payment I would reckon you can afford a $300,000 house in Arvada and drive 10 miles further to work. That is if you work downtown. And besides that, what services are not available in the suburbs? That is one talking point you can't reply to. Back it up or pack it up.

Originally Posted by steveindenver

Which makes it neither suburban nor sprawl. In fact it is the answer to the problem that is suburban sprawl.

It is not an answer to anything other than the question "What are we going to do with this huge tract of land that the old airport sat upon?" If the same place was built in Douglass County I don't think you would even give it the time of day. It would be seen as sprawl, a problem. But since it isn't, it's growth, not sprawl. I don't see the difference. Denver sprawl is net growth. Real sprawl leave cities crumbling and falling apart.

Originally Posted by steveindenver

You lose out on the afformentioned benefits of the area and will certainly never match the energy effeciency of an Energy Star certified home. As energy prices are only going up and many Denver homes were built into the 60's with zero insulation ...

If you don't care that there are quaint expensive shops within walking distance and cutesy little playgrounds littering the landscape you loose nothing. Any house can be insulated and I would venture to say that a "sustainable" smaller house anywhere else with insulation blown in and upgraded windows and HVAC would still be much cheaper than Stapleton. Stapleton is not about saving money. It is about glits and glamor and being in the hip spot. Nothing more. If that is what you want then have it and be happy.

I have nothing against people who choose to live in Stapleton at all. I just think a number of them bought into a marketing ploy and/or are snobs who think they are better than everybody because they live in utopia, a magical kingdom where no worldly problems can infiltrate.

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by BlueWillowPlate

Of course these master-planned neighborhoods are not to everyone's taste. But as someone said, the only constant is change. I understand that some people are put off by what they perceive to be a Stepford Wives vibe at these master-planned communities. But the vibe in Denver has changed, too.
To me, development like Stapleton, Bradburn or Lowry is much preferable to some of the willynilly stuff I've seen happen in Denver.

In central Denver, we lived in a home built in 1916. We enjoyed the historic aspect of our home, and the neighborhood's mom and pop stores.
But many of those are gone now because the rent went up and the chains moved in.
What y'all call fake might, in ten years time, feel more organic. Capitol Hill used to be brand spanking new, too.

I agree, and I have said the same many times about the suburbs. It cracks me up to hear homes described as "mid-century modern" that my parents called "crackerboxes" back in the 50s/60s. Even Superior is looking different these days with the landscaping maturing.

I think one of the issues I have with the "fakiness" of some of these communities is that the commercial areas are full of places like yoga studios, pizza parlors, chain fast-food type places such as Coldstone Creamery, etc. I know there are stores in Stapleton where you can buy things you actually need, e.g. clothes, housewares, etc, but Stapleton is very large and an exception to the general rule in New Urban developments.

In regards to distance from Bradburn to DIA, MapQuest gives the shortest distance drive as 23 miles, 35 min. The shortest drive-time distance is 29 mi, 31 min. I didn't really look at the directions, sorry. I'd guess the shortest time route takes the tollway. That really is a long way to drive every day, especially when the idea of New Urbanism is to reduce one's energy consumption. So perhaps the OP should really consider Stapleton or Lowry if s/he wants a New Urban community.

[steveindenver]

Isn't it ironic that only the city neighborhoods are the ones without "miles of concrete and pebble pathways, parks, playgrounds, tennis courts". I don't think many suburbs are lacking these amenities.

No, but you pay the price in car trips to the store for things as simple as a gallon of milk when in a well planned community you can walk.

what services are not available in the suburbs?

The ones you can walk or ride a bike to.

Aren't oil prices falling? Isn't oil approaching $100 a barrel? Doesn't the falling dollar have something to do with gas prices?

For the time being yes. As to the second part, no.

But since it isn't, it's growth, not sprawl. I don't see the difference.

One is in the city, the other is not. Really quite simple.

Any house can be insulated and I would venture to say that a "sustainable" smaller house anywhere else with insulation blown in and upgraded windows and HVAC would still be much cheaper than Stapleton.

If only it was that simple. I have a rental in East Denver built in the 50's. Zero insulation in the walls. Even after replacing the windows and adding some insulation to the attic my tenants foot a 4-600 per MONTH gas bill for 1400 square feet in the winter. Your average Stapleton home with a LEED gold rating would be less than 20 percent of that cost with more than double the square footage. Substantial to say the least; and energy prices are not going to get cheaper, ever.

[Katarina Witt]

Quote:
what services are not available in the suburbs?

The ones you can walk or ride a bike to.

This is simply not true and has been discussed in this forum many times over.

[denverian]

Originally Posted by bullfish15

Isn't it ironic that only the city neighborhoods are the ones without "miles of concrete and pebble pathways, parks, playgrounds, tennis courts". I don't think many suburbs are lacking these amenities.




Aren't oil prices falling? Isn't oil approaching $100 a barrel? Doesn't the falling dollar have something to do with gas prices? I think people buying overpriced houses and defaulting on the loan is contributing to the dollar. If you can afford a $500,000 Stapleton house mortgage payment I would reckon you can afford a $300,000 house in Arvada and drive 10 miles further to work. That is if you work downtown. And besides that, what services are not available in the suburbs? That is one talking point you can't reply to. Back it up or pack it up.



It is not an answer to anything other than the question "What are we going to do with this huge tract of land that the old airport sat upon?" If the same place was built in Douglass County I don't think you would even give it the time of day. It would be seen as sprawl, a problem. But since it isn't, it's growth, not sprawl. I don't see the difference. Denver sprawl is net growth. Real sprawl leave cities crumbling and falling apart.




If you don't care that there are quaint expensive shops within walking distance and cutesy little playgrounds littering the landscape you loose nothing. Any house can be insulated and I would venture to say that a "sustainable" smaller house anywhere else with insulation blown in and upgraded windows and HVAC would still be much cheaper than Stapleton. Stapleton is not about saving money. It is about glits and glamor and being in the hip spot. Nothing more. If that is what you want then have it and be happy.

I have nothing against people who choose to live in Stapleton at all. I just think a number of them bought into a marketing ploy and/or are snobs who think they are better than everybody because they live in utopia, a magical kingdom where no worldly problems can infiltrate.

We often sit around sipping chardonnay, discussing the options on our Volvos and Mercedes, and then laughing at the plight of the poor masses surrounding our perfect kingdom

[denverian]

Originally Posted by steveindenver

No, but you pay the price in car trips to the store for things as simple as a gallon of milk when in a well planned community you can walk.


The ones you can walk or ride a bike to.


For the time being yes. As to the second part, no.


One is in the city, the other is not. Really quite simple.


If only it was that simple. I have a rental in East Denver built in the 50's. Zero insulation in the walls. Even after replacing the windows and adding some insulation to the attic my tenants foot a 4-600 per MONTH gas bill for 1400 square feet in the winter. Your average Stapleton home with a LEED gold rating would be less than 20 percent of that cost with more than double the square footage. Substantial to say the least; and energy prices are not going to get cheaper, ever.

The most we've paid in winter to heat our 2100 sq. feet is $240 (gas and electric combined) and we don't skimp on the heat. I've never owned an old home in Denver so I can't really compare. Unfortunately they keep jacking up the rates, so I'm glad we have a well-insulated house!

[apa1128]

we'll be out there in February, and we'll just have to look everywhere. Coming from ATL, a 35-40 minute commute is peanuts! We'll just have to see. Bradburn looks very attractive to me.
I'm sure there are some shortcuts to use. How much is the tollway? Does Denver have an electronic toll card to cruise through like we do here in ATL?

[sumgai187]

Looks like $4 each way from I-25 North - Toll Calculator

If you're willing to take the toll road, that also opens up Louisville, Lafayette, & Broomfield. I don't believe there is much traffic on the toll road.

If you check out Bradburn, you may also want to check out Legacy Ridge (high-end neighborhood nearby that's not new urbanism). Also in Westminster, Hyland Village is another new urbanism community that McStain (the solar builder in Bradburn) are just breaking ground on. However, I hear that it will probably be passe before it is finished and it is not in Denver.

In Bradburn, check out Big Dry Creek open space behind it. That is a really nice jogging/biking area and connects the neighborhood to the Promenade, public library, recreation center etc.

On a side note, I do like the Arvada recommendation that someone had. Sort or reminds me of a Decatur, GA feel and is in a good location to access various areas.

[steveindenver]

Unfortunately they keep jacking up the rates, so I'm glad we have a well-insulated house!

We paid 37 dollars for electricity last month (July) -- with the air set at 72 (3800+ ish square feet) -- but after various additional fees for environmental this and thats and rate "adjustments" due to increased cost for the power company the total came out to 117. So, more than DOUBLE the actual usage in fees. Thank you Xcel Energy.

Gas was only 14.99 though, and gas for the car was zero, but if you factor in the bike maintenance costs it might have been cheaper to drive more.

On a side note, I do like the Arvada recommendation that someone had. Sort or reminds me of a Decatur, GA feel and is in a good location to access various areas.

Arvada is a huge area. I really like the parts near old town Arvada myself, and there are a number of parks in the area and big box retailers with small resteraunts too.

[apa1128]

$8! Yikes! There has got to be a shortcut somewhere (backroads, etc.)

I will look at Arvada....