Urbandale relocating to Minneapolis/St. Paul. Am I crazy? (Des Moines: theatres, law school)

[golfgal]

I have several friends that are attorneys in the Twin Cities and a good number of them have been laid off. Firms are cutting back quite significantly. New hires are not getting the type of salary you quoted-plan on closer to $70K here. That could change in a couple years, however.

I would say that a starting salary of $115K if you can get it in the twin cities is respectable but certainly not going to give you a glamorous life. Count on needing about $300K+ to get you into a typical 2 story, 4 bedroom suburban home. More realistically, the 70K is going to be what you see and even at that, expect to be looking at "starter homes".

Schools for the kids are not of concern as there are plenty of districts that are excellent all around the metro area.

What field is your wife in? The job market is tough here right now. That would be more of a deciding factor for me then anything.

As far as comparing Des Moines to the Twin Cities, you are comparing a town of about 200,000 to a metro area of 3.5 million, no comparison when it comes to things to do here. You will not have an issue finding a similar place to live in the Twin Cities.

The weather differences are minimal-we probably get a handful of colder days in the winter then you get now but for the most part the average temps are the same.

Someone mentioned the commute-that is really a non-factor. There are plenty of options for public transportation from all over the metro at a minumum, and given you most likely won't be going to school during peak rush hour times you can get to the law school on the U of M campus in 30 minutes or less from pretty much everywhere in the metro area. Living outside of the inner ring will actually get you into better school district and less expensive housing as well as safer neighborhoods.

One BIG plus with a 3 year old is the Early Childhood Family Education (ECFE) program in MN. They are 'parenting' classes for the most part but they are really social classes for kids to play with other kids their own age and parents to meet families with kids of the same age. Our kids are in high school now but we are still close with many of the families we met way back when they were toddlers in ECFE.

[nrogers1122]

So one pro, and one con. I think that people are laying off all over the place. The cost of UMN is soooo much cheaper than Drake. Right now I know several Drake Law Grads that are actually taking jobs doing what I do (claims adjusting). I would hope that MN would offer at least a better potential than that. Also, UMN is a national market school, so the prospects for other cities would be far more vast than Drake. Also, I'm a believer in Adam Smith so I think that we will start to see an upswing.

My spouse has attained a position in management without a college degree. I think that there may have trouble with limited credentials finding comprable work in the TC but there does seem to be endless opportunities on monster and career builder, so I'm not too worried. Again, if I have to move a few months ahead to wait for a good job to open up, its not that big of a deal.

Comparison:...........DES MOINES ..................vs.................... TWIN CITIES
Law School............................................ ............................ Advantage
Home Search ...........................................Tie
Job Prospects ..........Advantage (already has a good job)
Life Quality:.......................................... Undecided
Opportunity: .................................................. .....................Advantage

[golfgal]

Originally Posted by nrogers1122

So one pro, and one con. I think that people are laying off all over the place. The cost of UMN is soooo much cheaper than Drake. Right now I know several Drake Law Grads that are actually taking jobs doing what I do (claims adjusting). I would hope that MN would offer at least a better potential than that. Also, UMN is a national market school, so the prospects for other cities would be far more vast than Drake. Also, I'm a believer in Adam Smith so I think that we will start to see an upswing.

My spouse has attained a position in management without a college degree. I think that there may have trouble with limited credentials finding comprable work in the TC but there does seem to be endless opportunities on monster and career builder, so I'm not too worried. Again, if I have to move a few months ahead to wait for a good job to open up, its not that big of a deal.

Comparison:...........DES MOINES ..................vs.................... TWIN CITIES
Law School............................................ ............................ Advantage
Home Search ...........................................Tie
Job Prospects ..........Advantage (already has a good job)
Life Quality:.......................................... Undecided
Opportunity: .................................................. .....................Advantage

Just a word of caution about the Career Builder jobs-many of them are not actually job openings so there aren't as many as it seems--especially if you are looking at all the United Heath "positions" there. If she is looking for a job in the 40K-50K salary range for management positions there are some out there, more than that and the market is pretty dry.

I think you will find that the quality of life here is equal to or better then what you have now-just to help you with your scale.

I just did a quick search on Realtor.com and for houses in the $250,000-350,000 range, expect to add about $50,000-100,000 on to a comparable house in the Twin Cities.

[Chase03]

Here's my take on this one. I have often thought about advancing my career by moving out of state with my GF. But we, like you, are comfortable...... We make reasonable nice livings and life here is pretty laid back. The grass always seems greener on the other side, can you put a price on being comfortable, having family and friends around. I couldn't. Plus I do feel strongly that in this day and age of the economy and blah blah blah that having a nice good paying job for you and your wife is damn near priceless right now. There are MANY who would trade you. I know that the current graduates of ANY school are going to have very difficult time finding jobs in this market. I've read about this many times online and it doesn't seem there's a line of people ready to hand out 100 G salaries. People are getting fired, pay cuts,laid off, kinda crazy I think. So anyway I have decided to in a way settle for the mean time, atleast until there's more stable ground. There's worse places to be, if it ain't broke don't fix it. Stay home and go to Drake if you have too.

[pepe1]

I grew up in the Twin Cities and moved to Central Iowa about 10 years ago. I can honestly say there is not much I miss about the Twin Cities and appreciate Central Iowa all the more now that we have little ones (Fantastic schools here, lots of activites for the kids).

I could be wrong here, but it seemed even when the economy was humming along, good paying lawyer jobs were still hard to come by anywhere (far too many graduates relative to positions).

[nrogers1122]

Central Iowa definately has its strong points, not the least of which is my personal strong network of freinds and acquaintences and a free babysitter (thanks, Mom and Dad).

In terms of the economy, I am certain that Minnesota is better than Iowa. Although plenty of lawyers have difficulty finding a job, not all law schools are the same. A law grad from Minnesota will have much less trouble finding a job than a law grad from St. Thomas (nothing against ST). The difference is a sort of aristocracy among law schools brought about in-part by the US News Ranking System. I'm honestly discounting the economy in MN as far superior than Des Moines. The only advantage of DSM is the fact that my wife is thoroughly established in a very good job, but its not like there are no jobs in Minneapolis that could eventually amount to the same thing.

Again, I'm also looking at the cost of Drake nearly being twice that of UMN, with the starting salary being half that of UMN and with an exponentially more competitive market. If I were in a vaccum and it were just me, I would choose UMN without a second thought. The draw for staying in DSM is more along the lines of the lack of cumbersome logistics of moving a family unit, a strong personal network, and home-town familiarity.

We in Des Moines tend to think that we are the secret eden of towns; The perfect mix of cost of living, opportunity, low crime, central location, and easy living. I, along with others, think that certain Des Moines institutions such as Tasty Tacos, Water Works Park, The Court Ave. Farmers Market, Centro/Django, The High Life Lounge, and the Iowa State Fair are invaluable. I, along with other Iowan's, love the I Cubs not because they are an exciting sports program, but because playing hookey in Summer and drinking beer in the warm shade of Principal Park is a sublime experience.

Once you overcome the challenging, yet surmountable obsticle of getting the family unit transplanted, does MSP offer the same type of lifestyle?

[bluevelo]

Originally Posted by Minnesota Spring

It sounds like you have already made up you mind. Perhaps you want someone to tell you to stay in Des Moines?
You could always go to school at the U of M and move back to Des Moines. I have a friend who did the opposite (in corporate law, graduated from Drake, worked in Des Moines before coming back to Minneapolis). He did say that law in Minneapolis is much more rush, rush and the co-workers are not as friendly as they were back in Des Moines and somedays he longs for the slower pace of life in Iowa.

Also another thing to consider, Urbandale is a very suburban area. If you are going to the U of M (near downtown) you will probably want to consider a neighborhood in Minneapolis or St. Paul (or an inner ring suburb). Not sure if you prefer/suburban vs urban, and you probably have already taken that into consideration, but just though I'd throw it out there. I have many friends who used to make the commute from outer ring to downtown and just couldnt take it anymore and either found another job or got a place in the city. There are many great neighborhoods in Minneapolis or St. Paul to choose from.

The Twin Cites are the best place to live in the Midwest in my opinion. Lots of places to visit and things to do, people of all different backgrounds, without the Chicago crime. The only flaw is that mass transit could be much more extensive than it currently is, but hopefully that will change in the near future.

Well, less crime but the weather sucks at least 2x as much.

The upside is watching the Hawkeyes continue to beat the crap out of MN in football

[Repubocrat]

I spent 6 years in the Minneapolis/St Paul area and have been here in Des Moines for the last 2 months. This was the best move I have ever made and
I regret not doing it sooner. People here in Iowa are friendlier, overall much more laid back and my life here is a lot less stressful. I get to work in about 20 minutes, and so far, I have not encountered any bumper to bumper traffic, in Minneapolis, it would take me about an hour to get to work and traffic was horrible. Everything is cheaper here, food is so much cheaper here than in Minnesota , and I am making more money here than I made in Minneapolis. Honestly, I don't see any reason to move back to Minnesota.

[golfgal]

Originally Posted by Repubocrat

I spent 6 years in the Minneapolis/St Paul area and have been here in Des Moines for the last 2 months. This was the best move I have ever made and
I regret not doing it sooner. People here in Iowa are friendlier, overall much more laid back and my life here is a lot less stressful. I get to work in about 20 minutes, and so far, I have not encountered any bumper to bumper traffic, in Minneapolis, it would take me about an hour to get to work and traffic was horrible. Everything is cheaper here, food is so much cheaper here than in Minnesota , and I am making more money here than I made in Minneapolis. Honestly, I don't see any reason to move back to Minnesota.

It takes you 20 minutes to get to work . I couldn't stand a commute like that, my commute is only 10 minutes with bad traffic. Sorry, you just can't compare one commute to another without quantifying how far away you lived, which roads you took, etc. Try driving in New Jersey, Boston, California and you will see what real traffic is.

[Harpoon]

How about this. Pack your bags, move to Omaha, and attend Creighton Law School. The cost of living in Omaha is less than either DSM or MSP, and you would still be 2 hrs from DSM.