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Edub, I totally feel for you and understand where you are coming from. I don't doubt for a minute that all of those things that you have had to do to safeguard your investment are necessary, and it's pretty sad when a guy can't buy a piece of property and not have to worry about it being carted away or burned down.
I never denied that Detroit has a lot of very dangerous, crime-filled areas, way too many, in fact. I have read most of ForStarters' posts and I don't believe that he has ever denied that fact either. However, if he wants to focus his posts on the positive things that are happening in Detroit and the areas of the city where people do feel safe and enjoy being there, then I don't see why we should discourage him. He has a right to be happy in his city and have a positive outlook. If no one felt like he did, then there would be absolutely zero hope for Detroit, thank God there are people like him, right? Maybe with enough effort from people who love Detroit too much to give up on it, things will continue to improve and people like you will someday be able to buy property without having to fortress it just to keep it from being carted away piece by piece.
The problem is not talking about the few good things that happen in Detroit. The problem is that he talks about them in a way that is an outrageous exaggeration. It's like the kid who gets a big fat F on an exam but jumps for joy at the 3 questions he got right.
The good things that happen in Detroit are so outweighed by the bad it's silly to even discuss them. The only thing that will fix Detroit is to get in there and drain the swamp. But, like our failing student who doesn't want to do the hard work of studying; nobody in Detroit will accept the tough measures needed to drain the swamp.
Trying to hype up a few examples with a semblance of normalcy does nothing for anyone. facing facts beats denial every time.
The problem is not talking about the few good things that happen in Detroit. The problem is that he talks about them in a way that is an outrageous exaggeration. It's like the kid who gets a big fat F on an exam but jumps for joy at the 3 questions he got right.
The good things that happen in Detroit are so outweighed by the bad it's silly to even discuss them. The only thing that will fix Detroit is to get in there and drain the swamp. But, like our failing student who doesn't want to do the hard work of studying; nobody in Detroit will accept the tough measures needed to drain the swamp.
Trying to hype up a few examples with a semblance of normalcy does nothing for anyone. facing facts beats denial every time.
Failing student, huh? Nothing I write about on this forum is a lie. Name one thing I posted that isn't true. Name one development I fabricated. There isn't one. If you think that some of the stuff I put up is an exaggeration, then blame the sources I cite, because 90% of the time, I link to one. The rest of the time, I am relaying some observation I made on the way to work, while out and about, or gleaned from conversations I've had with local business people. If anyone is in denial, edub, it's you. I certainly don't say that Detroit is all peaches. I've never argued that Detroit doesn't have a litany of problems that need fixing; I just don't see the benefit in endlessly harping on about them. You don't think that I like to do the hard work? If the "hard work" is sitting on a forum complaining, and doing volunteer work in my spare time isn't, then yes, I guess I don't do the "hard work."
Whether you want to admit it or not, Detroit is undergoing many, many, positive changes. I try to expose those things because all people ever hear are things like "drain that swamp" from people like you. I happen to live in that so-called "swamp" and I actually love it. Detroit isn't going to change because people like you sit and thumb your nose at the city- it's going to change because people who find a tremendous value in Detroit's assets will infiltrate the corners of society and government from the inside out. There are numerous examples of people who are already doing this. The advancements in downtown and midtown and other parts of the city have happened as a result of grassroots efforts by dedicated folks. As Detroit continues to get nicer, I'll feel good about taking some credit for it, because when a new business opens up, I patronize it, when someone needs some help cleaning up a park, I lend a hand. That's the way it is here. So do I jump for joy when something good happens or when the city gets something right? You bet I do. And, I've been finding myself jumping for joy more and more these days. So, whatever it is you want to dispell about what I post on this forum, go for it, because I'm not telling only one side of the story, I am telling the story. The new story.
Location: Detroit's eastside, downtown Detroit in near future!
2,053 posts, read 4,394,799 times
Reputation: 699
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForStarters
Failing student, huh? Nothing I write about on this forum is a lie. Name one thing I posted that isn't true. Name one development I fabricated. There isn't one. If you think that some of the stuff I put up is an exaggeration, then blame the sources I cite, because 90% of the time, I link to one. The rest of the time, I am relaying some observation I made on the way to work, while out and about, or gleaned from conversations I've had with local business people. If anyone is in denial, edub, it's you. I certainly don't say that Detroit is all peaches. I've never argued that Detroit doesn't have a litany of problems that need fixing; I just don't see the benefit in endlessly harping on about them. You don't think that I like to do the hard work? If the "hard work" is sitting on a forum complaining, and doing volunteer work in my spare time isn't, then yes, I guess I don't do the "hard work."
Whether you want to admit it or not, Detroit is undergoing many, many, positive changes. I try to expose those things because all people ever hear are things like "drain that swamp" from people like you. I happen to live in that so-called "swamp" and I actually love it. Detroit isn't going to change because people like you sit and thumb your nose at the city- it's going to change because people who find a tremendous value in Detroit's assets will infiltrate the corners of society and government from the inside out. There are numerous examples of people who are already doing this. The advancements in downtown and midtown and other parts of the city have happened as a result of grassroots efforts by dedicated folks. As Detroit continues to get nicer, I'll feel good about taking some credit for it, because when a new business opens up, I patronize it, when someone needs some help cleaning up a park, I lend a hand. That's the way it is here. So do I jump for joy when something good happens or when the city gets something right? You bet I do. And, I've been finding myself jumping for joy more and more these days. So, whatever it is you want to dispell about what I post on this forum, go for it, because I'm not telling only one side of the story, I am telling the story. The new story.
I have been unable to give you rep points for a while now lol so just count this as my rep points lol
but do you ever find it funny that the main people who have something to say about people aknowledging the good in the city are usually the ones who only aknowledge one side of the story themsleves?......the bad side? smh
take a look around some of the same people who will down talk woodbridge (which btw may seem heavily blighted because core city is adjacent to it) will tell people on C-D to move to Warren or Hazel Park? ha! PEOPLE ABANDON MICHIGAN NOT JUST DETROIT.
Late bump, I know.
While I understand and agree with what you're saying here, I can not comprehend how you can fathom the comparison that Woodbridge is a better place than either Hazel Park or Warren. It's alot poorer and a hell of alot more dangerous. Southwest Warren may be somewhat closer, but still not even near as bad.
It's pretty decent for being a neighborhood in that part of Detroit but to make that sort of comparison is beyond my comprehension.
P.S. That 'abandonment' in Hazel Park is actually foreclosure. I have yet to see a boarded up anything that's not orange stickered. Hazel Park was an auto industry city and the collapse of the industry forced at least 400-600 Hazel Park citizens to look for new jobs. And only about half did. Even with the foreclosures, the total vacancy rate in the city is only 3%...
You may be talking about actual abandonment in South Warren, but in the rest of the city it's the same deal.
I cannot tell you how much I appreciate your support of Detroit. Its much needed in this forum.
However, you seem to be talking about another Detroit some of the time. While, once again, I love another Detroit supporter here, you don't seem to realize that Detroit has alot of problems. It has some areas that are uglier and creepier than most people can imagine. The government corruption is out of control. The schools leave alot to be desired. Some people just stopped caring. There's alot of crime in some areas.
You seem to paint our city as a Utopian society sometimes, and thats not what it is.
I cannot tell you how much I appreciate your support of Detroit. Its much needed in this forum.
However, you seem to be talking about another Detroit some of the time. While, once again, I love another Detroit supporter here, you don't seem to realize that Detroit has alot of problems. It has some areas that are uglier and creepier than most people can imagine. The government corruption is out of control. The schools leave alot to be desired. Some people just stopped caring. There's alot of crime in some areas.
You seem to paint our city as a Utopian society sometimes, and thats not what it is.
I agree wholeheartedly with much of this thread, from both sides. I've said this before and I'll say it again, For Starters' Detroit is not the Detroit of the average Detroiter. If you're living where he does, or in a loft downtown, or in Palmer Woods, or in a dozen other places varying between an entire neighborhood and a couple of square blocks of niceness, Detroit isn't that bad. For the other 85% of Detroiters, the city varies from "meh" (think Roseville with punitive levels of taxation and minimal code enforcement) to hell on earth. That's why I think nobody wants to live in that 85% of the city...nobody really wants to live in Roseville either, but at least the likelihood of being robbed at gunpoint in your driveway is somewhat lower...for now...
Until that 85% of the population gets mad as heck over this and won't take any more bull droppings from the city government, the Board of Education, and the criminal element, not much will change.
but at least the likelihood of being robbed at gunpoint in your driveway is somewhat lower...for now...
Tbh, even with how dangerous Roseville is I don't think it will ever be that bad. While there are plenty of good neighborhoods in Detroit, it's still a dangerous city in many places. The thing I hate is that people picture it as a burnt out warzone when you mention it. It is dangerous and alot of neighborhoods are very distressed, but Detroit is still very much a functional city.
I can't stress enough on dangerous though. We have a dangerous city, dangerous suburbs, and dangerous satellites.
Otherwise, I have to agree. That 15% is definitely there, people just need a little help finding it sometimes. I mean, look at this. A street after street of new development houses just blocks away from this. It's far from evident, but it's there.
Last edited by Northsider 248; 11-26-2010 at 12:18 PM..
Otherwise, I have to agree. That 15% is definitely there, people just need a little help finding it sometimes. I mean, look at this. A street after street of new development houses just blocks away from this. It's far from evident, but it's there.
Two examples that cross my mind are both on the east side: the easternmost street in Indian Village (Burns?) backs up to some truly awful stuff, and there's a cluster of newer and older well-kept homes right around Gratiot and McClellan, in the shadow of Nativity of Our Lord...the church helps to keep the surroundings stable, but it's surrounded by blight on probably every side.
Two examples that cross my mind are both on the east side: the easternmost street in Indian Village (Burns?) backs up to some truly awful stuff, and there's a cluster of newer and older well-kept homes right around Gratiot and McClellan, in the shadow of Nativity of Our Lord...the church helps to keep the surroundings stable, but it's surrounded by blight on probably every side.
Fischer is the easternmost street in Indian Village proper, although the houses along that street are more like whats in the most of Detroit, (vinyl-clad homes on small lots) rather than the rest of Indian Village. I live just up the street from Indian Village, and I've always found the area really interesting, how it suddenly drops off from these big, beautiful homes to one of the city's more blighted areas. Even the Detroit/Grosse Point Park transition isn't that drastic (Lets face it, the homes on the first few blocks north of Alter aren't exactly that great).
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lol
