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I had a sunroom using 4 season quality material added to my house a little over 1 year ago which cost a little over $20K.
I was hoping it would not make a difference in my taxes and that it would stay capped at the taxable value which can only go up by inflation or 5% whichever is less as long as you own the home.
However I got my assessment in February 2016 and there was an increase of $3000 to taxable value which was way more than inflation was from 2014-2015 (inflation was almost 0% I think 2014-2015) given that my taxable value is modestly below $100K
Now I had found out that property additions can increase taxable value and I had contacted the city and they told me that's why.
It seemed the dimensions may have been off on what the city had on file but only by 1 foot. I was hoping it would decrease taxes a little as I think they have it recorded 1 foot bigger. They told me they could measure around June, but it would only save like $12 per year in taxes, so I declined which brings me to my main and paranoid question below.
To try and prevent tax increases, we had recorded this addition to the city as a 3 season room on the permit even though it uses the material quality for a 4 season room.
I use the room all year as I had a PTAC unit installed that heats and cools it reasonable well, but the city does not know that.
I did actually ask them if heating and cooling the room would increase taxes and the person said yes, but then implied that would be if it was created as an opening from the sunroom into the house be permanently removing the door, but not if I just used a space heater
I asked them if a window or wall unit would do anything to increase taxes and they kind of paused and hesitated and said not really unless I removed the doorwall as it would then be considered living space. I do not remove the doorwall, but in my heart and of course I would never tell the city this, the sunroom is real living soace to me. The doorwall I just consider a glassdoor to another room even though it was originally intended to be outside
I never told them I heated and cooled it I just simply asked questions about it and declined for them to remeasure even if they could given how little it would save on taxes and my fear of them seeing the laminate flooring I put in.
Now my fear is, by simply calling which I am now paranoid about (I did not really think of that before I called), did I draw attention and even though I just asked about heating and cooling it and never stated I did, could an assessor walk by and increase taxable value further because of the phone call or no because there is nothing wrong with asking questions and that would be illegal to cherry pick like that?
For your info so you know as the city I am sure it may depend based on experience, it is Troy, MI within Troy school district around Livernois road North of Big Beaver but South of Wattles.
Anyone know if I have to be concerned and did I draw attention to myself by the phone call and could someone look and decide to slap much more to taxable value on the next assessment. Or is it nothing to worry about and what is added is already done and they cannot do anymore nor cherry pick who to additional based on just questions asked which i they could it would be like a police state.
My taxes are already too high given the rebound in home values and a year after buying the assessment change which then becomes the taxable value unfortunately instead of the SEV for the year you buy.
Anyone have any experience on if I did something stupid by calling and declining an assessment due to a bigger measurement? Or am I ok and what they added will be it and nothing more in the future aside of course inflation or 5% whichever is less.
Last edited by Wolverine607; 04-14-2016 at 10:28 AM..
Look at the square footage listed in the tax appraisal. If it did not change, they did not count the sunroom.
We have a sort of sunroom on our house. We play a game to get it counted for a mortgage appraisal and not counted for a tax appraisal. Here are the things that seem to make a difference.
There are doors between the kitchen and sunroom. Close the doors and make them noticed for a tax appraisal. Remove the hinge pins and put the doors in the garage for the mortgage appraisal. the presence or absence of the doors seem to differentiate between it being calls a "living room" and a "porch"
Whether the space is heated also impacts whether it is counted. Ours is not heated. We installed electric baseboard heaters after the first appraisal where the space was not counted. We make sure they are visible and even point them out for a mortgage appraisal. For a tax appraisal, they are probably not noticed, or maybe just not counted.
The floor is just concrete. We plan to acid stain and clear coat it, but have not yet. For mortgage appraisals, we put a nice area rug down. Makes the room look more finished.
We have a couch in the sunroom. Our dogs sleep in it and it is ripped up and disgusting. For a mortgage appraisal we cover it with a nice blanket.
The bottom line iit all depends on perception. There do not appear to be hard and fast objective rules for whether to count the room in the square footage or not. Notwithstanding the games, some mortgage appraisers count the space (and call it a living room), others do not (and call it a porch). The tax appraiser uses a square footage number that does not match the numbers from any mortgage appraisal, so we do not know where he gets his number, but I think he does not count the sunroom.
Look at the square footage listed in the tax appraisal. If it did not change, they did not count the sunroom.
We have a sort of sunroom on our house. We play a game to get it counted for a mortgage appraisal and not counted for a tax appraisal. Here are the things that seem to make a difference.
There are doors between the kitchen and sunroom. Close the doors and make them noticed for a tax appraisal. Remove the hinge pins and put the doors in the garage for the mortgage appraisal. the presence or absence of the doors seem to differentiate between it being calls a "living room" and a "porch"
Whether the space is heated also impacts whether it is counted. Ours is not heated. We installed electric baseboard heaters after the first appraisal where the space was not counted. We make sure they are visible and even point them out for a mortgage appraisal. For a tax appraisal, they are probably not noticed, or maybe just not counted.
The floor is just concrete. We plan to acid stain and clear coat it, but have not yet. For mortgage appraisals, we put a nice area rug down. Makes the room look more finished.
We have a couch in the sunroom. Our dogs sleep in it and it is ripped up and disgusting. For a mortgage appraisal we cover it with a nice blanket.
The bottom line iit all depends on perception. There do not appear to be hard and fast objective rules for whether to count the room in the square footage or not. Notwithstanding the games, some mortgage appraisers count the space (and call it a living room), others do not (and call it a porch). The tax appraiser uses a square footage number that does not match the numbers from any mortgage appraisal, so we do not know where he gets his number, but I think he does not count the sunroom.
The sunroom square footage is not listed in the Gross Living area. The person at the city told me they have it listed as a 3 season enclosed porch and that it cost around $20000 and they estimated that would make me home worth $6000 more (thuis $3000 because SEV and taxable is always half of home value at purchase time).
They do have square footage listed as a 17X12 enclosed porch, and my measurements have it as 16X12 but it is not counted as square footage of gross living area in addition to the home
Now to my other question. Because I called the city hoping to get my taxes down if it since it was listed as 17X12 instead of 16X12 on their records but declined because of how little tax difference it would make, could I have drawn attention to myself and could they come and look on their own time and cherry pick my address and raise it farther. Or is that not something they normally do or would it be illegal to cherry pick based on that and if they were gonna do it, it would have had nothing to do with a phone call asking questions, but rather just a random audit as with anyone else whether they called or not?
Last edited by Wolverine607; 04-14-2016 at 11:21 AM..
Does anyone else know anything from experience on if I have to be concerned because I made a phone call to the city even though I never said I heated and cooled the sunroom and just asked questions and in fact stated I have it closed off and only use it as a 3 season room? Could they cherry pick and come snooping because I mentioned my address and decide to raise taxable value even more than they already did based on the data they have from the permit and finally inspection right when the sunroom was done being installed? Or is that unlikely and would it be illegal to cherry pick based on someone making a phone call and asking questions.
Now to my other question. Because I called the city hoping to get my taxes down if it since it was listed as 17X12 instead of 16X12 on their records but declined because of how little tax difference it would make, could I have drawn attention to myself and could they come and look on their own time and cherry pick my address and raise it farther. Or is that not something they normally do or would it be illegal to cherry pick based on that and if they were gonna do it, it would have had nothing to do with a phone call asking questions, but rather just a random audit as with anyone else whether they called or not?
While it may be possible (not sure about the legal rules on this), it is not realistic. They have too much to do to focus on a little thing like that. Depending on the size of your city, they get hundreds or thousands of calls like that every year. I am not sure whether all cities do this, but most places re-assess on a schedule. The only way you get an interim reassessment is to pull a permit for some major work. Even then, they often do not bother with an interim reassessment and just wait until the next scheduled assessment for your area. Depending on who you called, they may have nothing do to with each other. For example, a tax review board is merely an advisory board of volunteers who make recommendations to the governing agency for tax reductions. They have no connection to the city assessor or tax collector and they do not really care whether your raised an issue or not. That is why they are there - to make recommendations on these types of issues. If you called the local assessor, city clerk or treasurer, then you may be talking to someone who could influence an assessment, but unless you were incredibly abrasive, cussed them out repeatedly or something, they are not going to notice you. You were just one call out of 20 or 100 they received that day. The odds that they remembered your call one hour after you hung up are almost nil. They are busy. .
While it may be possible (not sure about the legal rules on this), it is not realistic. They have too much to do to focus on a little thing like that. Depending on the size of your city, they get hundreds or thousands of calls like that every year. I am not sure whether all cities do this, but most places re-assess on a schedule. The only way you get an interim reassessment is to pull a permit for some major work. Even then, they often do not bother with an interim reassessment and just wait until the next scheduled assessment for your area. Depending on who you called, they may have nothing do to with each other. For example, a tax review board is merely an advisory board of volunteers who make recommendations to the governing agency for tax reductions. They have no connection to the city assessor or tax collector and they do not really care whether your raised an issue or not. That is why they are there - to make recommendations on these types of issues. If you called the local assessor, city clerk or treasurer, then you may be talking to someone who could influence an assessment, but unless you were incredibly abrasive, cussed them out repeatedly or something, they are not going to notice you. You were just one call out of 20 or 100 they received that day. The odds that they remembered your call one hour after you hung up are almost nil. They are busy. .
Thanks for the advice makes me feel a bit more comfortable. Although the one thing that kind of got me most paranoid was the person I talked to had mentioned they live in that neighborhood meaning the same one I live in?
Would that significantly increase the odds of them doing something because the person I talked to said they live in the same neighborhood as my address. Or only slightly, but still extremely unlikely they would do anything based on what you said above regardless of whom I talked to lives in the same neighborhood or not.
Troy, MI is a city with at least 80000 in population and the neighborhood I live in has 2 subdivisions that connect to each other I think
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