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NO , HE SPECIFICALLY SAYS WE NEED TO MOVE ON FROM "EAT LESS MOVE MORE" BECAUSE IT DOES NOT WORK. HE SAYS IT IS NO MORE LIKELY TO WORK NOW THAN BACK THEN IN HIPPOCRATES TIME. HE SAYS THERE NEVER WAS ANY SCIENTIFIV SUPPORT FOR IT . HE CALLS IT A SIMPLISTIC NOSTRUM AND SAYS IT IS INEFFECTIVE . HE SP[ECIFICALLY SAYS IT IS NOT AT ALL A SCIENTIFIC APPROACH TP PBESITY.
HE THEN LISTS THE SCIENTIFIC APPROACH
YOU IGNORE WHAT HE SAYS AND DID NOT WATCH THE LECTURE.
HE SAYS IT SEVERAL TIMES IN THE LECTURE.
AND TO THE ALAN ARAGON SYCOPHANTON HERE:
NO, "Modern Science vs The Stigma of Obesity" is NOT a book you IDIOT. It's a piece of scientific work and a SUMMARY OF UTMOST IMPORTANCE AMONG SCIENTISTS.
READ IT. IT SHEDS LIGHT ON THE WORK OF DR DOUGLAS COLEMAN AND THE SWITCHED VIEWS OF THE OBESITY RESEARCHERS. HIS WORK WAS PIONEERING.
I quoted Dr. Friedman's own words. Are you claiming he did not say what the article says he did?
The problem with blaming obesity on having a bigger appetite is that few obese people eat more because they are actually hungrier than others. Most obese people eat for emotional reasons that have nothing at all to do with appetite. Nobody eats chocolate or ice cream because they are hungry. They are eaten because they taste good and they are comfort foods. They are pleasure.
But chocolate and ice cream are pleasurable, and that is a form of appetite. Appetite and the sensation of hunger are not the same thing. Another issue is satiety. Some people just never seem to feel as if they have eaten enough.
Dr. Leibel and Dr. Friedman are LEADING THE WAY in obesity research. They are the world's TOP scientists in this field. INTERNATIONALLY RESPECTED AND SPEAK INTERNATIONALLY.
YOU ARE A JOKE TO COMPARE THEM WITH SILLY INTERNET GURUS WHO MAKE UNFOUDNED, DISCREDITED CLAIMS AT ODDS WITH THEIR PIONEERING WORK.
i quoted dr. Friedman's own words. Are you claiming he did not say what the article says he did?
i have a video ( several videos) of what he said and i spopke to the man persobnall several times. I know what is on his mind.
HIS LECTURE EXPOSUNDS ON HIS CALORIE COMMENT. IT WAS A Q and A SEGMENTafter the lecture.
YOU TOOK IT OUT OF CONTEXT TO SUIT YOUR AGENDA.
YOU PICK AND CHOOSE AND ONLY HEAR WHAT YOU WANT TO.
DR. FRIEDMAN DOE SNOT BELIEVE ANY PARTICULAR DIET IS ANY MORE FATTENING THAN ANOTHER . HE ONLY WAS COMMENITNG ON A QUETSION ABOUT ATKINS VS CARB RICH etc. AND HIS OWN VIEW.
HE ADMITS THE ANSWER IS UNKNOWN IN HUAMNS
HOWEVER, HE DOES NMOT BELIEVE IN" EAT LESS MORE MORE" AT ALL BECAUSE HE SAYS THE SCIENCE DOES NOT SUPORT IT.
. HE CRITICIZES IT ROUTUINELY IN THE VIDEO AND HSI SCIENTIFIC COMMENTARY MODERN SCIENCE VS THE STIGMA OF OEBSITY.
HE SPECIFCALL SAYS THE SIMPLSITIC NOSTRUM TO EAT LESS MOVE MROE IS COMPLETELY AT ODDS WITH COMPELLING SCIENTIFIC EVBIDENCE .
THE SCIENTIFIC LITERATURE ON OBESITY DOES NOT IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM SUPPORT EAT LESS MOVE MORE AS AN EFFECTIVE SOLUTION. IT FAILS BIG TIME IN STUDIES.
His stance on eta less move more is NOT his view- IT IS WHAT THE SCIENCE SAYS AND HE MENTIONS THIS.
You appear to lack understanding of the importance of peer review. Also, you continue to the ignore the Linda Bacon issue. If the fact that Alan sells a book and has clients means he is irrelevant, than so is Linda Bacon. You cannot have it both ways.
And?
Actually, no one said it was Alan vs. Friedman. I have no idea how Alan feels about Friedman, I just know he kicked Lustig's ass.
DR. STEPHAN GUYENET ( studies neurobiology of body weight regulation) IS A GENUINE SCIENTIST. HE KICKS ARAGON'S AND KREIGER'S BUTTOCKS ALL DAY LONG. HE IS THE ONLY VALID BLOG I READ.
KRIEGER IS A MALCONTENT TRYING TO SELL YOU HIS SRVICES.HE IS NOT ON THE SAME LEVEL AS DR. STEPHAN GUYENET EHO REPRESENTS SCIENCE AND UNCERTAINTY AND UNKNOWNS.
DR. STEPHAN GUYENET IS FAR MORE VERSED ON THIS THAN IS ALAN ARAGON AND THE LIKE. I COMMUNICATE WITH HIM TOO. WE ARE ON THE SAME PAGE.
YOU cannot separate Internet salesmen FROM GENUINE SCIENTISTS WHO SELL NOTHING.
What is a "semi-active lifestyle"? What is eating "semi-healthy"?
You are saying the same thing I did, that weight loss --- or the lack thereof --- depends on how much you eat, not what you eat.
Before you can judge a person's diet, you have to know not only what they eat, but how much. How many Oreos? How many chips? How do you know what your relatives eat when you are not around?
I do not know anyone who is thin who eats a lot.
You may not have counted calories, but if you lost weight, you ate less food.
I'm using the same terms that poster (clever girl) used. Her statement was this:
"Because here's the ugly truth; MOST (but not all) overweight people are undisciplined, unmotivated, and unwilling to accept responsibility for their condition. As humans, we are creatures of habit. Until you replace your bad habits (mindless eating of "crap" combined with a sedentary lifestyle, ) with good habits (semi-healthy meals combined with a semi-active lifestyle) the numbers on the scale will remain the same. It really is that simple. "
EH no it really isn't that SIMPLE for everyone. For every person that will lose weight doing this, there are those that will not lose AS MUCH weight and will stay overweight(but not as overweight as they were before).
In terms of not knowing what people eat when they're not around me, that is true. I don't know. All I have is their word about what they eat, and my own experiences about what they eat when they are around me. There is NO way of truly knowing how someone is eating since you aren't around that person all the time--which is why I said that Clever girls post was wrong she labeled all overweight people the same(i.e. that most have bad habits, are undisciplined, unmotivated, etc) without knowing what all of these "said" overweight people are doing. How does she know that they are not trying to eat healthy, that they don't work out, that they aren't motivated? She does not know what their habits are when she is not around, she does not know all overweight people. That is why it's silly to make general statements about a large group of people and then "sell" them a "simple" solution that really may not even begin to solve the weight problems for MOST or ALL overweight people.
In terms of my sister--well she told me all she ate throughout the day was oreos and chips. She did not say how MANY, but she ate the same thing when she came to stay with me during the summer. And she ate PLENTY of oreos(more in fact that I would ever eat in a day). Her diet was very different from mine, in terms of activity, and food choices. I ate more than her in a day, however after you accounted for my exercise activity(which was about an hour a day) breastfeeding, not laying around and WHAT I ate(I ate mainly fruit, veggies, lean meats, grains, and maybe 1 sweet treat a day) then we ended up with a similar caloric number at the end of each day. However I was still "bigger" than her despite this. As it stands I am 8.5 pounds overweight(as of this morning) and during the summer I had stayed (on and off) at about 13-15 pounds overweight for what I should be for my height and body frame. I finally lost those 5.5-7.5 pounds within the last month ONCE I finally gave up on counting calories, eating "healthy" and being obsessed about weight loss. It also could be because I am now "weaning" my 13 month old son.
And for the record I do have thin friends who eat crazy loads of foods and they are still thin, and I also have thin friends who barely eat. They are still still thin, but partake in completely different activities from one another. I have overweight friends who don't eat much at all-they eat once a day and it's usually one 1300-1400 calorie meal based on the caloric value, and overweight friends who eat a lot. They are still overweight, but don't all eat the same way.
I worked my a** off trying to lose weight after I had my son. Doing the "exact" simple solution that Clever girl said I needed to do. Anyone who saw all that I was doing said the same thing "girl you should be thin by now" and they were right I SHOULD have been, but I wasn't. The one size fits all solution to losing weight isn't correct. And BTW I actually lost weight this summer when I was eating more NOT less.
I'm using the same terms that poster (clever girl) used. Her statement was this:
"Because here's the ugly truth; MOST (but not all) overweight people are undisciplined, unmotivated, and unwilling to accept responsibility for their condition. As humans, we are creatures of habit. Until you replace your bad habits (mindless eating of "crap" combined with a sedentary lifestyle, ) with good habits (semi-healthy meals combined with a semi-active lifestyle) the numbers on the scale will remain the same. It really is that simple. "
EH no it really isn't that SIMPLE for everyone. For every person that will lose weight doing this, there are those that will not lose AS MUCH weight and will stay overweight(but not as overweight as they were before).
In terms of not knowing what people eat when they're not around me, that is true. I don't know. All I have is their word about what they eat, and my own experiences about what they eat when they are around me. There is NO way of truly knowing how someone is eating since you aren't around that person all the time--which is why I said that Clever girls post was wrong she labeled all overweight people the same(i.e. that most have bad habits, are undisciplined, unmotivated, etc) without knowing what all of these "said" overweight people are doing. How does she know that they are not trying to eat healthy, that they don't work out, that they aren't motivated? She does not know what their habits are when she is not around, she does not know all overweight people. That is why it's silly to make general statements about a large group of people and then "sell" them a "simple" solution that really may not even begin to solve the weight problems for MOST or ALL overweight people.
In terms of my sister--well she told me all she ate throughout the day was oreos and chips. She did not say how MANY, but she ate the same thing when she came to stay with me during the summer. And she ate PLENTY of oreos(more in fact that I would ever eat in a day). Her diet was very different from mine, in terms of activity, and food choices. I ate more than her in a day, however after you accounted for my exercise activity(which was about an hour a day) breastfeeding, not laying around and WHAT I ate(I ate mainly fruit, veggies, lean meats, grains, and maybe 1 sweet treat a day) then we ended up with a similar caloric number at the end of each day. However I was still "bigger" than her despite this. As it stands I am 8.5 pounds overweight(as of this morning) and during the summer I had stayed (on and off) at about 13-15 pounds overweight for what I should be for my height and body frame. I finally lost those 5.5-7.5 pounds within the last month ONCE I finally gave up on counting calories, eating "healthy" and being obsessed about weight loss. It also could be because I am now "weaning" my 13 month old son.
And for the record I do have thin friends who eat crazy loads of foods and they are still thin, and I also have thin friends who barely eat. They are still still thin, but partake in completely different activities from one another. I have overweight friends who don't eat much at all-they eat once a day and it's usually one 1300-1400 calorie meal based on the caloric value, and overweight friends who eat a lot. They are still overweight, but don't all eat the same way.
I worked my a** off trying to lose weight after I had my son. Doing the "exact" simple solution that Clever girl said I needed to do. Anyone who saw all that I was doing said the same thing "girl you should be thin by now" and they were right I SHOULD have been, but I wasn't. The one size fits all solution to losing weight isn't correct. And BTW I actually lost weight this summer when I was eating more NOT less.
E-X-A-C-T-L-Y. I would bet your effort was inhumane suffering and titanic proportions.
The entire problem is that the whole "eat less and move more" advice is completely wrong and ineffective.
I have a friend who is VERY thin and he eats lat at night 9: 30 pm oatmeal mixed with cheerios in a HUGE bowl. I lived with him for a month on vacation. He is kind of lazy and eats a large amount and continues this at night. Every night he would have his oatmeal late. My friend is very thin. The thinnnest woman in my neighborhood is a lazy, lazy woman who sleeps until 12 noon and does not do much physically.
The most overweight woman in my neighborhood walks and walks in the rain even - everyday. She is still considerably fat.
My neighborhood has so many hard working physically actuive obese women. Some even cut the grass themselves as well while their thin lazy husbands stay inside.
These forum people will never look into the actual science from great scentists studying this very issue.
Dr. Leibel himself stated very clearly that when it comes to your weight, the body has a mind of its own completely. His research was run back and forth 6 times in his own words with Dr. Rosenbaum. All three scientists are rtying to educate the public that obesity is NOT what people (erroneously) think it is ( e.g. willpower etc.) It BIOLOGY.
If they had, they would not repeat the corny scientifically unsupoprted nostrum to "eat less and move more whihc only makes people tired hungry and frustrated that they did not lose weight- or very little.
Nice commentary.
Last edited by RickSantos; 10-27-2012 at 12:27 PM..
E-X-A-C-T-L-Y. I would bet your effort was inhumane suffering and titanic proportions.
The entire problem is that the whole "eat less and move more" advice is completely wrong and ineffective.
I have a friend who is VERY thin and he eats lat at night 9: 30 pm oatmeal mixed with cheerios in a HUGE bowl. I lived with him for a month on vacation. He is kind of lazy and eats a large amount and continues this at night. Every night he would have his oatmeal late. My friend is very thin. The thinnnest woman in my neighborhood is a lazy, lazy woman who sleeps until 12 noon and does not do much physically.
The most overweight woman in my neighborhood walks and walks in the rain even - everyday. She is still considerably fat.
My neighborhood has so many hard working physically actuive obese women. Some even cut the grass themselves as well while their thin lazy husbands stay inside.
These forum people will never look into the actual science from great scentists studying this very issue.
Dr. Leibel himself stated very clearly that when it comes to your weight, the body has a mind of its own completely. His research was run back and forth 6 times in his own words with Dr. Rosenbaum. All three scientists are rtying to educate the public that obesity is NOT what people (erroneously) think it is ( e.g. willpower etc.) It BIOLOGY.
If they had, they would not repeat the corny scientifically unsupoprted nostrum to "eat less and move more whihc only makes people tired hungry and frustrated that they did not lose weight- or very little.
Nice commentary.
This. I agree. I worked my butt off. Continuously. While I watched others that were much smaller than me eat "junk", move "less" and they would look at me and not understand why I was having to do "so much". My mom is thin and was eating 4 bakery cupcakes a day(amongst other things) and whenever she talked to me and we talked about what I had ate, she was always baffled about why I was still as big as I was. Even she said it, at one point "It doesn't make since that you are as big as you are, you barely eat anything, and you do so much". It made me feel like crap. But then I came to a startling realization: I am NOT getting thin or losing MUCH weight doing all the "right" things. So what am I supposed to do, exactly???? That was what I asked myself. I even met with a nutritionist that was a friend of my doctor, and she was giving me ideas about what I should eat and what I "could" eat and I told her "I'm already EATING this way".
Then I said f*** it one day and I've been smooth sailing ever since.
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