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Old 10-30-2012, 08:34 AM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
37,102 posts, read 41,267,704 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickSantos View Post
obesity has little to do with choice or willpower.


Weight is involuntarily regulated. The science behind involuntary regulation 9 just like other systems in your body - blood pressure etc.0 is overwhelming.
There is potentially more control over involuntary body processes than you are willing to admit.


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Old 10-30-2012, 08:38 AM
 
Location: Las Flores, Orange County, CA
26,329 posts, read 93,761,592 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
For how many people would these extreme practices help in losing weight? What is the track record?
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Old 10-30-2012, 09:17 AM
 
Location: Wonderland
67,650 posts, read 60,925,505 times
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Charles.

No one is saying it's EASY to lose weight and keep it off.

What we're saying is that it's definitely POSSIBLE for the vast majority of people. Now - whether they choose to change their lifestyle and make that change permanent is up to them - no one else can make them do so, and since it IS difficult to change one's lifestyle, it's a tall order. But certainly possible - and certainly better for them than making poor choices for the rest of their lives.

Most people don't have perfect bodies, and many people are not going to find it easy to be THIN - and I for one am not espousing or pushing that goal. I am pushing the goal of weight MANAGEMENT and control over one's health - and the ability which nearly everyone has within them to make more consistently better lifestyle choices when it comes to diet and activity. If people make consistently better choices, they nearly certainly WILL see improvements in their health and weight.

That's it.
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Old 10-30-2012, 09:30 AM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
37,102 posts, read 41,267,704 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles View Post
For how many people would these extreme practices help in losing weight? What is the track record?
Perhaps those who do lose and keep weight off are unconsciously tapping into the ability to short circuit whatever Rick's supposedly immutable internal forces are.

In order to use them, you have to know that they exist.

I know that I can make my own blood pressure go down significantly. I close my eyes, breathe deeply, and visualize the numbers I want on the blood pressure machine. That comes in handy sometimes when dealing with customer service representatives. It's also something that's easily measurable.
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Old 10-30-2012, 09:33 AM
 
Location: Tampa (by way of Omaha)
14,561 posts, read 23,067,590 times
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I see Rick dodged by question, so I'll ask again.

If obesity is such a complicated problem, as you suggest, then why does a simple calorie deficit (created by either exercise, diet, or both) result in weight loss in almost all cases?

Answer me that.
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Old 10-30-2012, 09:52 AM
 
Location: St. Louis
7,444 posts, read 7,016,699 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
But people eventually quit Atkins, too. Some folks really feel yucky when they are ketotic, and once you break the ketosis, your appetite comes back.

Remember, a calorie is just a measure of the energy content of food. Once a food is broken down and its components enter the Krebs cycle, the source of the components no longer matters.

The best eating plan is one that you can stick with in the long run.
People quit Atkins, true. I'm not sure any way of eating that requires some discipline of choice is ever followed 100% of the time. The appetite stays lower in my view whether your are in ketosis or not because the blood sugar remans more stable when one restricts refined carbs, such as on Atkins, although I agree and know from experience that the appetite is most suppressed while one is in ketosis. I'm not sure if any studies have been done to compare how long people can stay on a low carb diet versus a low fat/calorie restricted diet, but I would bet if it is ever done the low carb diet would perform well, because it doesn't really mean you have to eliminate that many foods, it's easy to follow (once you know what you are doing) and allows one to eat until they are full (not until they satisfy a daily caloric level).

If eating less and moving more (aka calorie restriction) works for you, great, but I would suggest it has failed on a macro level, given the levels of overweight and obese people. People by and large don't continue this type of diet because they are more hungry.

I'm sure there are other ways to lose weight, but I think for much of our population that is overweight, a carb restricted diet should be encouraged, especially for those that have tried and failed at everything else.
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Old 10-30-2012, 10:00 AM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
37,102 posts, read 41,267,704 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MUTGR View Post
People quit Atkins, true. I'm not sure any way of eating that requires some discipline of choice is ever followed 100% of the time. The appetite stays lower in my view whether your are in ketosis or not because the blood sugar remans more stable when one restricts refined carbs, such as on Atkins, although I agree and know from experience that the appetite is most suppressed while one is in ketosis. I'm not sure if any studies have been done to compare how long people can stay on a low carb diet versus a low fat/calorie restricted diet, but I would bet if it is ever done the low carb diet would perform well, because it doesn't really mean you have to eliminate that many foods, it's easy to follow (once you know what you are doing) and allows one to eat until they are full (not until they satisfy a daily caloric level).

If eating less and moving more (aka calorie restriction) works for you, great, but I would suggest it has failed on a macro level, given the levels of overweight and obese people. People by and large don't continue this type of diet because they are more hungry.

I'm sure there are other ways to lose weight, but I think for much of our population that is overweight, a carb restricted diet should be encouraged, especially for those that have tried and failed at everything else.
But the reason Atkins works is because eventually you eat less. That is fewer calories, even if you are not counting them in any formal fashion.
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Old 10-30-2012, 10:05 AM
 
Location: North Carolina
1,565 posts, read 2,451,073 times
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you are what you eat. Losing weight has much more to do with ones diet and genetics than it does with exercise. There are fat guys on every football team in America at all levels. even a lineman burns more calories than your typical jogger or gym rat that works out 3 times a week. These guys are fat because the eat like horses and the have the genetics to be fat. If someone really wants to lose weight than it's all about the diet. Exercise will help get you there but it's more about the calories you take in than the ones you burn.
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Old 10-30-2012, 10:14 AM
 
16,579 posts, read 20,709,696 times
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If what Rick is saying were true, then we would have seen pictures of fat people in concentration camps, or fat people standing in bread lines during the great depression. Of course those pictures don’t exist. If a person undergoes a sustained calorie deficit, they’re going to lose weight.

But I don’t think anyone on here disagrees that different people’s bodies are different and voluntary attempts to create calorie deficits have varying degrees of success. Person A may consistently consume more calories than Person B while Person B struggles to maintain a healthy weight and Person A does not.

Based on my thoroughly unscientific observations, as well as things I’ve read, I think that once a person has gained weight, they are honestly more hungry than people who have not ever been overweight. Their metabolism changes and their fat cells send a signal to their brains telling them that they need to eat. Hunger is an essential part of survival and if you feel genuinely hungry, it is next to impossible to disobey the urge to eat. I think that is part of what Rick is trying to say and I think there is truth to it.

I’ve watched overweight people I know and love struggle with their weight. They are energetic, smart, successful, strong-willed people, knowledgeable about nutrition and concerned about their health, who seem powerless in the face of a plate of pasta or a coconut cream pie. I can only assume that the urge they have to eat is literally irresistible. It cannot be the same thing I feel when I’m deciding between the burrito smothered in chili and cheese and the salad with grilled chicken on top.
Also, I’ve become convinced (again, based on reading and observation) that sugar and simple carbohydrates have addictive properties. I know that the more I eat of them, the more I want. I have a rule for myself that I won’t eat any sugar until after lunch because I know that if I have a donut, forget it. I’m going to want to eat sugary food all day long. Research has shown that sugar lights up some of the same pleasure centers in the brain that some addictive drugs do.

While I still believe that Calories In/Calories Out is the basic equation, there is more going on in the decision-making process than simple will power. The urge to eat is primal and some people, for reasons which are not clear, are compelled to eat more than they need to survive. They can make changes to improve their health–give up sodas, eat complex carbs and protein rather than simple carbs, exercise–but I don’t think that’s all there is too it. If it were, we wouldn’t have an obesity epidemic.
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Old 10-30-2012, 10:23 AM
 
Location: St. Louis
7,444 posts, read 7,016,699 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
But the reason Atkins works is because eventually you eat less. That is fewer calories, even if you are not counting them in any formal fashion.
I agree and I believe I stated that in one of my previous posts, but that is not the end of the story because it fails to take into account how your body reacts to calories of different macro nutrients (carbs, protein and fats). The problem I have with saying a calorie is a calorie is a calorie is that, while technically true by definition, it doesn't take into account how our bodies react to a calorie of different types of foods.

Blood sugar remains more stable on a low carb diet, which controls appetitie better, even if you are not in ketosis.

Low carb dieters also tend to burn more calories while on a low carb diet than on a low fat diet, even at rest.

Low-carb diet burns the most calories in small study

Again, I'm all for what works for others, but this has worked for me and I believe it will work for many people needing to lose weight, especally those that tried and failed ( or failed to maintain) simply restricting calories.
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