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That's because the people who have no dietary or health -problems- have nothing that needs to be solved. Only people who have problems, have something to solve. And so, people with slow metabolisms, people who are gaining weight -as a result- of lack of exercise or overeating, people who have thyroid problems that they don't get treated medically, people who are overweight due to things they -can- do something about, but choose not to do something about - are the people who...
can do something about it, but choose not to.
People who are at a healthy weight, and a healthy physiology, don't have "problems" with their weight or physiology that need to be treated. And so, there's nothing to gripe about, with them.
It's not double standards at all. If you get fat and out of shape because you eat wrong, or because you refuse to medicate properly, or because your body requires exercise EVEN IF YOUR NEIGHBOR DOESN'T...
then it's your own fault that you're fat and out of shape, and it sucks to be you - until and unless you make an attemp to do something *appropriate* about it. Such as...
eat less, exercise more, medicate properly.
I agree with most of what you have said, but...
Not all women want to be treated with estrogen replacement because that type of therapy has been linked to an increased risk of breast cancer and other complications.
I don't think that people are under any obligation to "medicate properly" just to avoid weight gain.
A lot of it is denial too. My son, started his medical practice by taking on a lot of overweight people that wanted medical guildence to lose.
One of the first things he told them to do was keep a food diary. Every day, write down EVERYTHING, even little snacks or the odd piece of candy. Everything.
One woman, that swore she ate very little, was very good about keeping the diary. On her first return visit, she presented her book and he started to tally up her first day's calorie count.
He got up to 4000 calories and he wasn't finished with the first day. He pointed the 4000 out to her. She got angry, got up and walked out. He never saw her again, but I'll bet she still thinks that she doesn't eat much.
He soon gave up that part of his practice. Far too many, just could not admit that they ate too much.
Reality will disagree, there are many situations where metabolic disorders have no cure. That is medical fact, and nothing controversial, it's biology 101.
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Originally Posted by AnonChick
If she's taking steroids that cause her to gain weight, then she'll have to eat less, and exercise more, and the weight will come off.
In your example, exercising more and eating less doesn't cure her medical reason for taking steroids. Her medical condition requiring steroieds is independent of diet & exercise. She can diet and work out until she's blue in the face, it's not going to cure her medical condition.
I had a roommate with severe ulcilerative colitis. Her choices were a total colectemy or a permanent course of steroids. She exercised and dieted on the steroids and was unable to loose the weight that the steroids caused her to gain. She was eating 800 calories a day under doctor supervision. How much less do you suggest she eat? There's a limit to idealism like "calories in calories out" before you reach a point where a person is technically in a state of starvation and still not seeing weight loss results. Obviously if calories/in/out hasn't worked thus far it's not going to because it's FLAWED in cases of metabolic complications.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnonChick
If she has a thyroid problem, then she needs to take thyroid replacement hormone, which will return her metabolism to normal, and a standard "eat less exercise more" routine will work just fine.
Again, diet and exercise does nothing to cure the medical reasons for an under-active thyroid.
IF the thyroid hormone levels were the only problem to be corrected through hormone suppliments, then there would be no need to diet to fix the problem.
If her hormone levels were still uncorrected, calories/in/out is still not going to fix her broken metabolism or remedy the problem with her weight since it's her own body working against her and not her food choices.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnonChick
If her estrogen levels are out of whack, then taking estrogen replacement will return those levels to normal, and a standard "eat less exercise more" routine will work just fine.
Again you're admitting that calories/in/out are not curing the estrogen levels, which are the real problem. So I'm not sure why you're touting diet and exercise as a cure, only to cite examples where you admit the problem is metabolic in nature.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnonChick
The point is, if something is wrong with your hormones, than you will not burn as efficiently as if nothing was wrong. And so, you have to adjust your intake, and your burn level. And that is done by eating less, and exercising more.
Your presumption is flawed and oversimplified as a one-size-fits-all solution. In the case of metabolic disorders the body just adapts to the lowered calorie intake by slowing the metabolism and making it more efficient, preventing weight loss. Not all metabolic problems are the same, and they do not all have the same solution nor the same response to a calories/in/out scenario.
You presume that metabolic disorders only hinder the rate of burn, that is false, metabolism is far more complicated then that with numerous biological pathways causing different problems independent of diet resulting in weight gain throughout the body ranging from appetite, fat storage and fat release, regulation of energy expenditure, digestion, hindered rates of glucose absorption, inflammation, surges of fat storing hormones, etc, etc.
In cases of type II and Insulin Resistance, the body produces an excess of insulin. Insulin is a fat storage hormone as well as a glucose-regulating one, no matter how little one eats or how much one burns there will always imbalance of excessive insulin in place to siphon off any blood sugar available to store in fat cells, meanwhile the body's cell membrane insulin receptors are resistant to insulin so they don't absorb glucose from the blood properly. So when lypolysis occurs (burning fat to create energy) to create energy for the body's cells, all the glucose poured into the bloodstream doesn't get absorbed because the cells are resistant to the insulin that would otherwise allow them to absorb the glucose, instead the glucose released into the blood stream gets siphoned off back into fat by the insulin. This is how people with IR and Type 2 GAIN weight on a diet, or exercise until they drop dead from hypoglycemia and don't loose a goddamn pound.
OK, TX - I'm saying obesity is genetic. You can look at my cousins, mother and uncle. My grandfather was large.
But wait! I love vegetables and fruit, eat oatmeal every day, cook most of my food from natural ingredients. My job is fairly physical and I love to hike in the mountains. So I am large and not huge like some of my cousins.
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I find it odd that everyone who says obesity is genetic doesn't eat healthy and exercises very little.
That's because the people who have no dietary or health -problems- have nothing that needs to be solved. Only people who have problems, have something to solve.
I consider anyone who compulsively eats junk food as someone with a problem to solve regardless of their weight. But it's only the large people who get the negative attention. Anyone who promotes unhealthy eating is equally worthy of the "shame" treatment, but that's not how it goes, it's just the "Fat" ones who get poked at.
I saw a couple of skinny guys making fun of a fat woman at Mcdonalds over her weight. She was eating a salad and a bottle of water. Meanwhile the guys were sucking down a supersized double quarter pounder with cheese meal with cokes the size of a gas can. The fat woman was actually eating right, but she was still being publicly ridiculed by a couple of arsehats eating enough crap to kill a horse.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnonChick
And so, people with slow metabolisms, people who are gaining weight -as a result- of lack of exercise or overeating, people who have thyroid problems that they don't get treated medically, people who are overweight due to things they -can- do something about, but choose not to do something about - are the people who...
can do something about it, but choose not to.
You're assuming metabolic problems are a lifestyle choice, they're not. They're medical problems, often with no cure and rarely a treatment what works to prevent the weight problems.
Untreated metabolic diseases aren't always due to the patient not wanting to be treated, it's also due to doctors failing to properly diagnose their patients. Obese patients are often categorized into "overeating lazy fu*jkers" on sight, and the doctor looks no further into any underlying medical causes. A lot of people who are overweight due to medical reasons rarely get any diagnosis until they switch doctors and happen across a competent one that won't judge them on sight. It goes the other way too, many people look fine and the doctors don't bother doing some basic due diligence into their health. My sister had an under-active thyroid even though she wasn't obese, but she "looked fine" and generally had no complaints, we didn't find out about her thyroid until last year when her new doc did a through blood test.
Are there some obese people who are obese because of poor diet and lack of exercise? Oh hell yes! But sadly the ones with metabolic problems get swept under the rug because doctors make a knee-jerk presumption of their habits, as a result many obese patients can't do anything about their metabolic problems because they're never diagnosed in the first place.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnonChick
People who are at a healthy weight, and a healthy physiology, don't have "problems" with their weight or physiology that need to be treated. And so, there's nothing to gripe about, with them.
Wrong, you gripe about them promoting an unhealthy diet. I don't care how healthy you look on the outside, if your diet is snickers bars and boxed mac and cheese, you're a bad example on the down-low.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnonChick
It's not double standards at all. If you get fat and out of shape because you eat wrong, or because you refuse to medicate properly, or because your body requires exercise EVEN IF YOUR NEIGHBOR DOESN'T...
Skinny people eat like crap, are out of shape, refuse to medicate properly too, so YES that is the VERY definition of double standards.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnonChick
then it's your own fault that you're fat and out of shape, and it sucks to be you - until and unless you make an attemp to do something *appropriate* about it. Such as...
eat less, exercise more, medicate properly.
Sad thing is, even those who DO something about it are still treated like human toilets.
OK, TX - I'm saying obesity is genetic. You can look at my cousins, mother and uncle. My grandfather was large.
But wait! I love vegetables and fruit, eat oatmeal every day, cook most of my food from natural ingredients. My job is fairly physical and I love to hike in the mountains. So I am large and not huge like some of my cousins.
Now your statement no longer is true.
My aunt, a laaaarrge woman, always ate salads, lean mean, cut out fat and sugar from her diet for decades, and goes to jazzercise 4x a week. She was diagnosed with PCOS and type 2. Doc says "Oh if you would just eat right and exercise, this wouldn't be a problem!", so she told him about her healthy eating habits and exercise regimen and the doc called her a liar.
Let's see, in my family, one of my brothers is morbidly obese...he seems to live on hoagies, cheese-steaks, chips, pastries, fried foods and doughnuts and gets no exercise...
My other brother and I are both quite active and eat more of a Mediterranean diet..neither of us is overweight...
My parents? My Mom, a stay at home mother, was maybe 25 pound overweight and her only exercise was housework...my Dad got heavy after he retired and could snack to his heart's content.
So do genetics play a role in my one brother's obesity? Or is it lifestyle and nutrition?
Let's see, in my family, one of my brothers is morbidly obese...he seems to live on hoagies, cheese-steaks, chips, pastries, fried foods and doughnuts and gets no exercise...
My other brother and I are both quite active and eat more of a Mediterranean diet..neither of us is overweight...
My parents? My Mom, a stay at home mother, was maybe 25 pound overweight and her only exercise was housework...my Dad got heavy after he retired and could snack to his heart's content.
So do genetics play a role in my one brother's obesity? Or is it lifestyle and nutrition?
What's your family health history going back to the grandparents? IF none of them struggled with obesity, and none of them had any cases of type 2 diabetes, the your doughnut-loving brother probably doesn't have a genetic factor. However, if he does make a honest effort to loose weight in the future and he's not seeing results then he may want to get a glucose resistance test to be screened for IR.
Not all women want to be treated with estrogen replacement because that type of therapy has been linked to an increased risk of breast cancer and other complications.
I don't think that people are under any obligation to "medicate properly" just to avoid weight gain.
Then they have to accept that they will continue to be at risk of obesity. There are alternatives to pharmaceutical synthetic estrogen. There is no reason why someone with an estrogen imbalance should automatically be counted as obese. Many women with estrogen imbalances are -not- obese. Using an estrogen balance as an excuse to be obese, is an excuse. It is not a cause. There are natural therapies that can return the estrogen levels closer to normal. And for those who cannot or choose not to do that, then they just have to...
eat less, exercise more.
It is, and will always, come down to that very simply plan.
Reality will disagree, there are many situations where metabolic disorders have no cure. That is medical fact, and nothing controversial, it's biology 101.
In your example, exercising more and eating less doesn't cure her medical reason for taking steroids. Her medical condition requiring steroieds is independent of diet & exercise. She can diet and work out until she's blue in the face, it's not going to cure her medical condition.
I had a roommate with severe ulcilerative colitis. Her choices were a total colectemy or a permanent course of steroids. She exercised and dieted on the steroids and was unable to loose the weight that the steroids caused her to gain. She was eating 800 calories a day under doctor supervision. How much less do you suggest she eat? There's a limit to idealism like "calories in calories out" before you reach a point where a person is technically in a state of starvation and still not seeing weight loss results. Obviously if calories/in/out hasn't worked thus far it's not going to because it's FLAWED in cases of metabolic complications.
Again, diet and exercise does nothing to cure the medical reasons for an under-active thyroid.
IF the thyroid hormone levels were the only problem to be corrected through hormone suppliments, then there would be no need to diet to fix the problem.
If her hormone levels were still uncorrected, calories/in/out is still not going to fix her broken metabolism or remedy the problem with her weight since it's her own body working against her and not her food choices.
Again you're admitting that calories/in/out are not curing the estrogen levels, which are the real problem. So I'm not sure why you're touting diet and exercise as a cure, only to cite examples where you admit the problem is metabolic in nature.
Your presumption is flawed and oversimplified as a one-size-fits-all solution.
blah blah blah and this thread is about OBESITY...not hormonal deficiencies and how to cure them.
My posts are stating that *no matter what your hormonal problem is* you can STILL treat the obesity with more exercise and eating less. Of course eat less move more won't cure an estrogen imbalance.
But eat less move more WILL help someone with that estrogen imbalance lose weight. If someone is *already obese* because of hormonal problems, then eat less move more will help them LOSE WEIGHT. And if they get treated for those hormonal imbalances with medicine, they will *continue to be obese* until they eat less and move more.
Hormonal imbalances don't cause weight gain. Hormonal imbalances cause *whatever you are doing to eat less and move more* to not work efficiently. You fix that hormonal imbalance, and eat less move more will become more efficient. If you refuse to fix the hormonal imbalance, or you cannot fix the hormonal imbalance, then you will have to eat even less, and move even more, than whatever you were eating and moving previously, and you will lose weight.
I haven't claimed, implied, stated, or hinted that eat less move more will treat, cure, or fix any hormonal problem. You have chosen to accuse me of making statements I never stated. Try addressing the point:
EAT LESS MOVE MORE if you are obese and want to lose weight. No matter what is wrong with you, that is the simple mantra that will always work.
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