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Despite the fact? I'm sorry....when did I ever say I never read the book? That is merely something you keep repeating in an attempt to discredit my claims. In fact, most of your response to me has been "that isn't right...you don't know the diet". You've made little attempt to show why I'm wrong. For example, show me how you can maintain a low carb and high protein diet without consuming flesh foods. How does it work? The biggest sources of plant protein are loaded with carbs, even the lentil has more than double the amount of carbs as protein. Maybe some delicate mix of legumes, nuts and something else would do it....but I'm not seeing it.
As far as "blaming the South Beach diet", you're missing an important part of my comment. Low-carb diets have been the most popular diets over the last decade on the other hand....whole food plant based diets? Not very much. Millions of Americans have tried low-carb diets, where as most are motivated to try a plant based diet after they suffer a major heart attack, etc. So then, given their widespread popularity don't you think that if they had any merit then we'd see some societal results? Heck...we haven't even seen a reduction in the rate of increase! Americans have gotten more obese at a faster rate the last decade than before!
I never suggest you were "paid off by the dairy and meat industry", but the dairy and meat industry starts marketing to Americans in elementary school and their marketing effects how just about everyone thinks about food. Your comments about deficiencies is a good example of a common dietary myth that is propagated by these groups.
Well, did you read the book? You'd understand its not a carb elimination but a good carb/bad carb strategy.
Though I concur the propaganda of the meat/dairy industry is intense - potential deficiencies are noted by the scientific community:
None of those people are Americans, yet they eat plenty of meat.
What exactly is your point? I never suggested that Americans are the only ones eating meat. Though I'm a bit confused why you'd mention Russia and Japan. The Japanese consume much less meat than Americans, its just that their meat heavy dishes are the only ones popular with Americans. Usually they use meat as a flavoring, sorta like how Americans will had a few mushrooms on top of a 12 oz steak for flavor. The Russian diet is more similar to ours, but Russians are rather unhealthy and they still eat less meat than Americans. Though I imagine it has more to do with costs than any health concerns.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnonChick
Perhaps your problem is just with Americans, in general, and you're using diet as the "excuse of the day" to rail on us.
Well, did you read the book? You'd understand its not a carb elimination but a good carb/bad carb strategy.
Why would I understand that when the diet in fact results in low-carb consumption. He doesn't say "don't eat carbs", instead he comes up with some byzantine dietary regime that will result in relatively low carb consumption. Though the explanation is different, the end result isn't much different than Atkins and other low-carb diets.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sciameriken
Though I concur the propaganda of the meat/dairy industry is intense - potential deficiencies are noted by the scientific community.
If you think that industry hasn't have shills in the "scientific community" you may want to do some reading. The meat/dairy industry fund all sorts of research.... But let's look at these articles:
Again about Vegetarianism and not whole foods. But this doesn't say much about deficiencies either, expect:
"While vegetarian diets have not shown any adverse effects on health, restrictive and monotonous vegetarian diets may result in nutrient deficiencies with deleterious effects on health."
Gee, wouldn't a restrictive and monotonous meat-based diet result in deficiencies as well? Yep.....
Looks like instead of coming to grips with the fact that you may be wrong...you went on a wild goose chase. I mean....two of the articles are about athletes and as a result say little about the every day person. Athletes, whether they eat meat or not, need special diets to meet their needs. The other two say nothing about any observed deficiencies and aren't about whole food diets in the first place.
There is only one issue here and I've already disclosed it, though its not known to be necessary or not, vegans are advised to take a b12 supplement. That's it....that's the sole dietary issue that is unique to vegans...deficiencies in all other nutrients are just as much an issue for the meat-eating population as they are vegans.
Looks like instead of coming to grips with the fact that you may be wrong...you went on a wild goose chase. I mean....two of the articles are about athletes and as a result say little about the every day person. Athletes, whether they eat meat or not, need special diets to meet their needs. The other two say nothing about any observed deficiencies and aren't about whole food diets in the first place.
There is only one issue here and I've already disclosed it, though its not known to be necessary or not, vegans are advised to take a b12 supplement. That's it....that's the sole dietary issue that is unique to vegans...deficiencies in all other nutrients are just as much an issue for the meat-eating population as they are vegans.
You must really enjoy arguing. The bolded section is just a ridiculous argument. Simply because a vegetarian declares they are on a "plant based whole foods diet" they are somehow magically exempt from having to worry about deficiencies that are concerns for vegetarians as a whole? No, someone on a plant based whole foods diet must make food choices that meet their nutritional requirements. People on "regular" diets have concerns as well with lots of overlap in vitamins vegans and vegetarians worry about, including B12, but these diet choices leave some must more or less susceptible and in this case we look at vegetarianism. Additionally, athletes are people too, they may have some special diet considerations but a lot can be learned by studying them. I do apologize that you were probably not able to get past the abstract of these articles. If they do interest you - send me a PM and I'll see if I can get you a copy.
What exactly is your point? I never suggested that Americans are the only ones eating meat. Though I'm a bit confused why you'd mention Russia and Japan. The Japanese consume much less meat than Americans, its just that their meat heavy dishes are the only ones popular with Americans. Usually they use meat as a flavoring, sorta like how Americans will had a few mushrooms on top of a 12 oz steak for flavor. The Russian diet is more similar to ours, but Russians are rather unhealthy and they still eat less meat than Americans. Though I imagine it has more to do with costs than any health concerns.
You can see the census data for particular meats as well, if you adjust for population this shows that Americans eat around three times more beef than Russians:
The bolded section is just a ridiculous argument. Simply because a vegetarian declares they are on a "plant based whole foods diet" they are somehow magically exempt from having to worry about deficiencies that are concerns for vegetarians as a whole?
Yes, but there is nothing magical about it.... Vegetarian simple means that you don't eat meat and there are numerous so called "junk food vegetarians". A whole foods plant-based diet is a whole different ballgame....and so long as you consume a reasonable variety of foods you don't need to worry about deficiencies on this diet. Why? Because plants are packed with vitamins and essential nutrients.
Also, I would again like to point out how odd it is to suggest that those consuming a whole foods plant-based diet somehow has more to worry about than the average American when it comes to nutrient deficiencies. Meat and animal based foods supply very few micro-nutrients, they by no means absolve someone from deficiencies.
The deficiency argument against plant-based diets is simply a scare tactic and has no basis in science. The sole recommendation for vegans is to take a b12 supplement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sciameriken
No, someone on a plant based whole foods diet must make food choices that meet their nutritional requirements.
Umm....Everyone has to, whether they eat meat or not, make food choices that meet their nutritional requirements. You are again speaking as if the existence of animal products in your diet automatically absolves you from any nutrient deficiencies. It doesn't.... Everyone has to be mindful of these things therefore citing this as a "downside" of a whole foods plant-based diet is just a bit bizarre.
Regardless, none of the articles you posted demonstrate any sort of observed deficiencies in a whole foods plant-based diet or even about whole food plant-based diets. Given that two of them were about athletes, its hard to consider them anything other than obfuscatory.
Yes, but there is nothing magical about it.... Vegetarian simple means that you don't eat meat and there are numerous so called "junk food vegetarians". A whole foods plant-based diet is a whole different ballgame....and so long as you consume a reasonable variety of foods you don't need to worry about deficiencies on this diet. Why? Because plants are packed with vitamins and essential nutrients.
Also, I would again like to point out how odd it is to suggest that those consuming a whole foods plant-based diet somehow has more to worry about than the average American when it comes to nutrient deficiencies. Meat and animal based foods supply very few micro-nutrients, they by no means absolve someone from deficiencies.
The deficiency argument against plant-based diets is simply a scare tactic and has no basis in science. The sole recommendation for vegans is to take a b12 supplement.
Umm....Everyone has to, whether they eat meat or not, make food choices that meet their nutritional requirements. You are again speaking as if the existence of animal products in your diet automatically absolves you from any nutrient deficiencies. It doesn't.... Everyone has to be mindful of these things therefore citing this as a "downside" of a whole foods plant-based diet is just a bit bizarre.
Regardless, none of the articles you posted demonstrate any sort of observed deficiencies in a whole foods plant-based diet. Given that two of them were about athletes, its hard to consider them anything other than obfuscatory.
That is funny - because that is what I wrote too. I think your arguing with everyone on City-data.com is making you a bit tired -- I'll end here to give you a break...
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