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I was under the impression that the general consensus on a daily goal is one gram of protein per pound of lean body mass.
Its .8 grams per kilogram, some recommend 1 gram per kilogram for those not eating meat/dairy because plant based sources of protein are absorbed at a bit lower rates. In terms of pounds it would be around .35 grams per pound. But determining protein intake by weight only works if you're relatively lean, the .8 gram per kilogram "formula" over-estimates protein needs in the overweight/obese.
Paleo actually advocates eating lean cuts of meat.
To some degree, but that isn't what people usually do in practice because lean meats aren't as palatable. The paleo diet really is just a repackaged atkins diet, nothing about it makes much sense. Vilifying grains (a domestic seed food), while glorifying domestic cattle......is strange to say the least. Both are byproducts of the neolithic revolution and both have wild cousins in the paleolithic period. A real paleo diet would be filled with a lot of plants, some insects, some eggs, small reptiles, shellfish, and the occasional large mammal.
The worst part of a pizza is the cheese, I really don't know why people think that "high quality" cheese is better for you. It may taste superior, but it contains the same nutrients.
Pizza can be a healthy food, if consumed the neapolitan way. Americans usually add WAY too much cheese (often poor quality at that) and load it with fatty meats. Here's the key: No more than two slices of properly made old world pizza, a good sized salad with plenty of raw spinach and broccoli-vinegarette dressing, and a couple of glasses of red wine. Thatsa healthy!
To some degree, but that isn't what people usually do in practice because lean meats aren't as palatable. The paleo diet really is just a repackaged atkins diet, nothing about it makes much sense. Vilifying grains (a domestic seed food), while glorifying domestic cattle......is strange to say the least. Both are byproducts of the neolithic revolution and both have wild cousins in the paleolithic period. A real paleo diet would be filled with a lot of plants, some insects, some eggs, small reptiles, shellfish, and the occasional large mammal.
The worst part of a pizza is the cheese, I really don't know why people think that "high quality" cheese is better for you. It may taste superior, but it contains the same nutrients.
I have never seen anyone glorify domestically raised meats as part of the plan. Most say that buying conventional is OK if limited by a budget, and supplemented with omega-3. Ideal meat sources are wild game and fish as well as grass-fed ruminants. Oh, and I eat a fairly large amount of vegetables, it's definitely much different from Atkins! Plus Atkins never really stressed the importance of meat quality
About the cheese, I find that I don't need as much when it is of a higher-quality because the taste shines through more. So I am satisfied with a fraction of the cheese that pizza normally comes with.
I have never seen anyone glorify domestically raised meats as part of the plan. Most say that buying conventional is OK if limited by a budget, and supplemented with omega-3. Ideal meat sources are wild game and fish as well as grass-fed ruminants. Oh, and I eat a fairly large amount of vegetables, it's definitely much different from Atkins!
I'm not sure what you mean by "domestically raised meat", but grass-fed cattle are domesticated animals not wild animals. They are the same breeds in either case and have been breed to be fat, its just that grain feeding helps them get even fatter.
Yes, they say the "ideal" is wild game, but in practice that isn't what people are eating. They are eating domestic animals that are, the vast majority of the time, raised on factory farms. Why is it okay to eat domesticated animals but not a domesticated seed food? Why is it okay (even if "less than ideal") to eat cattle fed grains, but not to eat those grains yourself? None of it makes any sense....but I don't think its suppose to. Its just a way to repackage Atkins, a diet that has already had its lime-light.
Also, Atkins allows vegetables, it just minimizes starchy vegetables.
I'm not sure what you mean by "domestically raised meat", but grass-fed cattle are domesticated animals not wild animals. They are the same breeds in either case and have been breed to be fat, its just that grain feeding helps them get even fatter.
Yes, they say the "ideal" is wild game, but in practice that isn't what people are eating. They are eating domestic animals that are, the vast majority of the time, raised on factory farms. Why is it okay to eat domesticated animals but not a domesticated seed food? Why is it okay (even if "less than ideal") to eat cattle fed grains, but not to eat those grains yourself? None of it makes any sense....but I don't think its suppose to. Its just a way to repackage Atkins, a diet that has already had its lime-light.
Also, Atkins allows vegetables, it just minimizes starchy vegetables.
Well I guess you could call grass-fed meats domesticated but they are much closer nutritionally to their totally-wild counterparts. If there was such a thing as a wild cow these days I'm sure all the paleo followers would be advocating that as the ideal source. Unfortunately grass-fed is the closest thing to wild available for most ruminants in this day and age. As far as it being OK to eat grain-fed meats, it's not technically approved as part of the diet but most believe that at least following the plan 80% is better than sitting there shoving pasta in your face. Instead of thinking of it as an all-or-nothing approach, the goal is to incorporate as many of the concepts as possible. Maybe eventually I will have the income to buy the higher quality meats but right now I do the best I can on a budget.
Well I guess you could call grass-fed meats domesticated but they are much closer nutritionally to their totally-wild counterparts.
We are talking about cattle and cattle are domestic animals, this has nothing to do with the type of feed, instead the fact that we've been selectively breeding cattle for thousands of years to have desirable features (e.g., being fatter, higher milk output, etc).
Grass-fed cattle are very different from wild animals, for one they are much fatter. The cattle have been breed to be fatty and ranchers ensure that they have plenty of food. Just like we've selectively breed grains to produce larger seeds.
The domestication of cows is more recent than the domestication of grains, so if anything eating domestic animals is even less paleo than eating grains. The paleo diet is a trojan horse...for a meat heavy Atkins style diet.
But I just remembered that this is a thread about pizza....
We are talking about cattle and cattle are domestic animals, this has nothing to do with the type of feed, instead the fact that we've been selectively breeding cattle for thousands of years to have desirable features (e.g., being fatter, higher milk output, etc).
Grass-fed cattle are very different from wild animals, for one they are much fatter. The cattle have been breed to be fatty and ranchers ensure that they have plenty of food. Just like we've selectively breed grains to produce larger seeds.
The domestication of cows is more recent than the domestication of grains, so if anything eating domestic animals is even less paleo than eating grains. The paleo diet is a trojan horse...for a meat heavy Atkins style diet.
But I just remembered that this is a thread about pizza....
Haha! Well just to briefly address that, maybe other people are concerned with eating exactly how paleolithic people ate, meaning no domesticated animals, but for me it is more about using that diet as a framework to eat healthier. It's not the end of the world to eat a grass-fed cow because my ancestors only ate wild boar or something. I would say an even bigger reason why grass-fed meats are emphasized is due to the more ideal omega 3:6 ratio and the lack of hormones/antibiotics present in conventionally raised meat. I know there are crazy people out there who don't use deodorant or wear shoes because paleolithic people didn't either, but that doesn't mean that most people on paleo want to replicate that diet exactly. It would be virtually impossible to do that today anyway. It's more about taking the general ideas and applying them to modern life.
On topic though, I grabbed a photo of my cauliflower crust pizza after I pulled it out of the oven, now THIS is a healthy pizza! No cheese or grains, lots of veggies (cauliflower, crushed tomatoes, and peppers) and some shredded chicken. It was almost sturdy enough to pick up and eat, if I had sliced it into 6 pieces instead of 4 I definitely could have. Oh, and I added some flaxseed meal under the sauce and served with sardine cabbage for a good dose of omega-3's
but for me it is more about using that diet as a framework to eat healthier. It's not the end of the world to eat a grass-fed cow because my ancestors only ate wild boar or something.
Just as its not the end of the world to eat a domesticated seed food (grains) because your ancestors only ate its wild cousins. This is just the issue, grains just like cattle are all products of the neolithic revolution. Forbidding grains, while allowing similarly domesticated cattle, chickens, etc makes little sense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fennec2009
On topic though, I grabbed a photo of my cauliflower crust pizza after I pulled it out of the oven, now THIS is a healthy pizza! No cheese or grains, lots of veggies (cauliflower, crushed tomatoes, and peppers) and some shredded chicken.
Why not just eat these things on a plate? Why go through the trouble of making into a pizza shape?
Pizza is, at the base, a flat bread with some toppings. In the US pizza without cheese is unimaginable, but in Europe its fairly common. Actually, when Europeans do put cheese on their pizza they treat it like other toppings so they are much less cheesy.
Why not just eat these things on a plate? Why go through the trouble of making into a pizza shape?
I guess it's a psychological thing? Sometimes I just want pizza but don't want to be doubling over in pain and bloated the next day from eating it. This doesn't taste exactly like pizza but it's close enough. Next time I will add a bit of goat cheese to make it even more like pizza! Same thing with julienned zucchini to make "pasta." Sure I could just roast the zucchini and serve the ground beef on the side but making it into pasta is fun and is a change of pace.
Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id
Just as its not the end of the world to eat a domesticated seed food (grains) because your ancestors only ate its wild cousins. This is just the issue, grains just like cattle are all products of the neolithic revolution. Forbidding grains, while allowing similarly domesticated cattle, chickens, etc makes little sense.
Well like I said, domestically raised animals aren't "allowed", per say. It's just an issue of how expensive they are, so they can be out of reach of many budgets. Conventional meats still have lots of nutritional value, there is just a concern about high omega 3:6 ratios and hormones. Grains have minimal nutritional value, nothing that cannot be found elsewhere in whole foods. They generally have to be broken down and processed for our bodies to digest them. Plus they are terribly high in calories, you must eat more to feel satiated and a significant portion of the population is gluten intolerant or gluten sensitive. In fact, some people who are not strict paleo eat oats, popcorn, and quinoa occasionally because they are gluten-free. That is often a bigger problem than grains themselves for many people. Portion control is still an issue with those, however. One of the upsides to paleo is that there is no need to calorie count, but adding in grains, even gluten-free ones, makes it easy to overeat. Sooo basically grains are cut out of the diet for several reasons other than the whole "my ancestors never ate this" thing. Even if you believe that it's contradictory there are many other reasons why eating grains is not good.
Well like I said, domestically raised animals aren't "allowed", per say.
And to say it once again, I'm not talking about how they are raised....I'm talking about the animal. Cattle are a domestic animal, grains are a domesticated grass crop. Why is eating a domesticated animal okay, but eating a domesticated grass not? Makes little sense....
Your claim that grains have minimal nutritional value is mistaken, whole grains are rather nutritious. They are a good source of many vitamins and minerals: iron, Magnesium, B vitamins (not b12), zinc, phosphorus, etc. Whole grains have a better mix of vitamins and minerals than most meat. Whole grains aren't high in calories either, much lower than what most people eat.
Regardless, grains aren't what make pizza bad. Its the combination of refined flour, cheese and the fatty toppings one usually finds. A pizza made with a whole grain dough, tomato sauce and topped with vegetables would be healthy.
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I have never seen anyone glorify domestically raised meats as part of the plan. Most say that buying conventional is OK if limited by a budget, and supplemented with omega-3. Ideal meat sources are wild game and fish as well as grass-fed ruminants. Oh, and I eat a fairly large amount of vegetables, it's definitely much different from Atkins! Plus Atkins never really stressed the importance of meat quality 
Unfortunately grass-fed is the closest thing to wild available for most ruminants in this day and age. As far as it being OK to eat grain-fed meats, it's not technically approved as part of the diet but most believe that at least following the plan 80% is better than sitting there shoving pasta in your face. Instead of thinking of it as an all-or-nothing approach, the goal is to incorporate as many of the concepts as possible. Maybe eventually I will have the income to buy the higher quality meats but right now I do the best I can on a budget. 
