Olive oil v. Coconut oil: Advantages? (vitamin, vitamins, buying, fiber)
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False, they will not admit it but it's in the back of people's mind. They see a solid fat and automatically think clogged arteries. You give (some) people too much credit based on your own knowledge, believe me it's not that clear to a lot of people. Some people don't take the time to think or are ignorant to the fact that foods are broken down by stomach acid and take different metabolic pathways. Even though coconut oil is solid below 76f, it turns liquid above that temperature, the human body runs at 98.6f. Coconuts have been consumed for millennia, they don't cause heart disease, that is absurd, even though some people still think that. I base that on comments I've read here.
The same goes for Ancel Keys, I would be willing to be that over 90% of people have never even heard of him or his "hypothesis", one that has shaped the public's perception to this day and on this board for starters. I still see a lot "saturated fat = heart disease", over and over here. I don't bother to respond, why would I? It's not bogus when he helped create the USDA guidelines that some people still follow, see below.
And anyone who thinks that is either markedly ignorant or stupid. I'm sure there's some that do, but I don't think most people are that markedly ignorant or stupid. We're not talking high levels of understanding of biology here. That's just like really basic. You have a stomach. It digests food. Broccoli is not in your brain causing strokes.
Again, we have a lot more and better data nowadays that does say it's more nuanced than just fat makes you have heart attacks and die. Ancel Keys was very early on in that a lot more and better data. The key hypothesis that Keys made was not fat bad, carbs good. It was saturated fat bad, unsaturated fat better. We have data that it's more nuanced than that.
The major problem though for CATO is that those guidelines came out during the Obama Administration. If you actually look at what changed in those Obama era guidelines, the major one was on cholesterol. To reflect the body of science that shows there is no relationship between dietary and blood cholesterol, the cholesterol guidelines were removed. Minor changes were salt recommendation was reduce for high-risk groups and the introduction of limiting caffeine to a moderate amount. CATO is pretty biased when it comes to political topics, which is really their area of expertise, so not the first place I'd go to for dietary advise.
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I don't heat EVOO at all. IMO, you do not even have to heat it to the smoke point to damage it, heating it period will cause oxidation which in turn causes inflammation. Even light will oxidize EVOO, that is why it comes in shaded green bottles and has a shelf life. There is a distinction between regular olive oil and EVOO, they are not the same.
I also have yet to see a stove that you can dial in a certain temperature, you have low, medium, high, etc, NOT a specific temperature. I doubt you or anybody else can actually control that unless you use a thermometer on your burners which I have never heard of anybody doing. So yeah, I know how to use a stove just fine, do you know how? Fill me in on something I may not know.
That's nothing unique about EVOO. Oil oxidizes. EVOO is an oil. It oxidizes like all oils. It's mostly oleic acid which is one of the most stable oils. Time and heat are factors, but for people that know how to operate the stove not really relevant factors as it takes many hours to significantly oxidize most oils, and olive oil is on the high end. Now, if you don't know how to operate a stove and have thrown out every smoke detector in the house because you keep setting them off... well, time and temperature. Past the smoke point oils oxidize very, very quickly.
Of course, by far the hardest thing to cook with is butter. It's the only fat I actually have some difficulty doing a few things, like searing, because it's just so much more sensitive to heat. An easy solution to that is to just sear in an oil and then add the butter afterwards. Not quite as tasty but requires much less skill and attentiveness in the operation of the stove.
I'm curious to know why a simple discussion has to turn into a violent testosterone war and calling someone stupid. Seems so unnecessary.
It's a good question. I mean, we're not calling anyone per se stupid. I don't think most people are which is why I take it issue when someone says most people believe something that dumb. Likewise, I try and keep politics out of food. That's not something you can entirely do as USDA is inherently political and politics is a definite factor in their recommendations and decision making. But blatant partisan politics is something I think you can avoid if that's not your bailiwick.
And anyone who thinks that is either markedly ignorant or stupid. I'm sure there's some that do, but I don't think most people are that markedly ignorant or stupid. We're not talking high levels of understanding of biology here. That's just like really basic. You have a stomach. It digests food. Broccoli is not in your brain causing strokes.
Again, we have a lot more and better data nowadays that does say it's more nuanced than just fat makes you have heart attacks and die. Ancel Keys was very early on in that a lot more and better data. The key hypothesis that Keys made was not fat bad, carbs good. It was saturated fat bad, unsaturated fat better. We have data that it's more nuanced than that.
The major problem though for CATO is that those guidelines came out during the Obama Administration. If you actually look at what changed in those Obama era guidelines, the major one was on cholesterol. To reflect the body of science that shows there is no relationship between dietary and blood cholesterol, the cholesterol guidelines were removed. Minor changes were salt recommendation was reduce for high-risk groups and the introduction of limiting caffeine to a moderate amount. CATO is pretty biased when it comes to political topics, which is really their area of expertise, so not the first place I'd go to for dietary advise.
That's nothing unique about EVOO. Oil oxidizes. EVOO is an oil. It oxidizes like all oils. It's mostly oleic acid which is one of the most stable oils. Time and heat are factors, but for people that know how to operate the stove not really relevant factors as it takes many hours to significantly oxidize most oils, and olive oil is on the high end. Now, if you don't know how to operate a stove and have thrown out every smoke detector in the house because you keep setting them off... well, time and temperature. Past the smoke point oils oxidize very, very quickly.
Of course, by far the hardest thing to cook with is butter. It's the only fat I actually have some difficulty doing a few things, like searing, because it's just so much more sensitive to heat. An easy solution to that is to just sear in an oil and then add the butter afterwards. Not quite as tasty but requires much less skill and attentiveness in the operation of the stove.
Make clarified butter. It removes the butter fat, which is what burns, but still has a buttery flavor,
Make clarified butter. It removes the butter fat, which is what burns, but still has a buttery flavor,
Well, it removes almost everything that's not butter fat. That's a good idea though. I've done very little cooking with ghee or clarified butter. Since it's mostly a flavor thing that would make it much easier if chopping vegetables or whatnot while searing.
The diet that always comes out consistently top and has most real wide spread of collective evidence that its beneficial for health and longevity is the mediterranean diet comprising of olive oil and fish.
The diet that always comes out consistently top and has most real wide spread of collective evidence that its beneficial for health and longevity is the mediterranean diet comprising of olive oil and fish.
Which tends to balance O6:O3 ratios since fish, particularly salmon, mackerel, are very high in O3. The typical Western diet is skewed more toward O6, something like 14:1. Thus it's a lot more effective to focus on adding O3 rather than restricting O6. E.g., if you're eating 14:1 and remove one unit of olive oil because you don't want to eat too much O6, well you're now 13:1. If instead you just add one unit of O3 now you're 14:2, or 7:1.
What the ratio should actually be is a lot more conjecture than evidence-based. The best data is mostly looking at people with chronic diseases. Depending on the disease anywhere from 4:1 to 10:1 tend to be critical ratios above which there tend to be increased risk of complications from whatever chronic disease we're talking about. That doesn't necessarily mean the same benefits occur in healthy populations. Sports nutrition, which tends to be the perspective I come at things from, is usually anywhere in the 4:1 to 1:1 area although it's based on anecdote and conjecture rather than evidence.
Fortunately, adding O3 isn't particularly difficult. Eat fish, salmon, sardines, canned tuna (not the stuff in oil unless it's cooked in the can fish oil), take fish oil pills. For vegetarians it's more limited. Flaxseed oil is a decent source for supplements or using in dressings but inferior to fish oil pills. Chia seeds are fantastic, cheap, and easy to incorporate. Throw them in a stir fry or salad, add them to oat meal, use them as breading for meat or fish, bake with them, or just throw some in a glass of water and let them sit for a bit.
The only negative about the coconut oil I see is that if you put it in the fridge, it's so hard you can't get it out of the container. Alternatively, if I leave it out, it's hot in my kitchen and it becomes a jar of clear liquid.
I made cornbread in an iron skillet this morning, ladeling some of the oil in the skillet and heating that in the oven before pouring in the batter. This makes a brown crust which is nice and reminiscent of grandma's cornbread. Nice for later with beans or soup. I also fried some breaded okra in the coconut oil.
I just wonder if it will go bad in the heat, over time?
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