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Don't insult me by projecting your "party line" mantra because I ask someone to show me real proof that the Missouri law combined with the federal law has has been enforced. I am not some brainless zombie that votes a certain way because someone tells me to do so on an emotional issue.
Now, if you can prove to me that the Missouri law was enforced and the law itself was too weak to do the job with adequate enforcement, then I'm on board.
Is there a new enforcement arm or funding for state/local law enforcement agencies created by the new law under Proposition B? I do not see one.
Yeah, I'm from Missouri and you really do have to SHOW ME proof that a new law is going to change effect enforcement. I'm not impressed by rhetoric.
**Applause** Tried to rep you but need to share the love first.
Here's a chart showing what Prop B proposes vs. what's already in place:
So basically, if I am reading this correctly, aside from federal animal cruelty laws and provisions already contained in RSMo 273, Proposition B if passed does/adds the following:
1) Makes misdemeanor violations for people possessing 10 or more "covered" females where none existed before (certain categories exempted).
2) Lists and defines specific conditions required to be in place for dogs of people in possession of 10 "covered" females of more (certain categories exempted).
3) Limits every owner-breeder of dogs to possession of no more than fifty (50) "covered" dogs of either sex (while exempting dealers from same and without regard to the physical size of the property, number of caretakers onsite, indoor facilities, etc... of the owner-breeder and the ability &/or facilities to handle larger numbers.)
Is that correct? Did I miss any other important points?
In conclusion, this Proposition, if passed into law, would have no more effect on operators of previously unlicensed puppy mills, other than opening up the person in possession of the dogs to misdemeanor charges, in addition to any other charges that may have previously resulted from violation of existing Missouri licensing/animal cruelty and federal animal cruelty laws.
Is that correct?
pretty much .... while **I** would prefer that animal cruelty result in felony charges, a misdemeanor is a start...... and more than what is on the books at present.....
and misfitz, i did not read your link, but see it was provided by a breeder group, so can imagine what is in it......
I'm still going back through the original Missouri statute to understand the inspection - fine process. There appears to be a "director" responsible for inspections but I don't understand if that comes under the USDA, under the state veterinarian's office, or another division of the state.
I'm also not clear if these misdemeanor charges are to be applied singularly for an entire incident or if they would be cumulative charges per occurrence. If there were a charge per dog recovered from breeders found in violation, that would be more teeth in the proposed legislation than I see on the surface.
It would seem to me that excluding dealers from the provisions of this law only perpetuates the potential that they continue to purchase from unlicensed breeder and is a real missed opportunity in the application of this proposition if passed.
I wish the groups supporting this actually explained the legislation better than pretending it will "end puppy mills" in Missouri. Clearly, it does nothing to "end puppy mills" if the previously closed and abandoned breeding facilities either failed to apply for a license or if the current inspection provisions in the law for licensees were not vigorously enforced.
On a side note:
In reading through the Missouri Statute I learned much. For instance, the "county dog tax" was news to me. I have to wonder if those have been repealed in my counties or if it is just a lack of advertising and enforcement by the county assessor's office. It would appear a tiny portion of that scant tax stays with the assessors office but I have to re-read to see if any of that money is supposed to go to enforcement/care for animals picked up by the county from owners.
Last edited by lifelongMOgal; 10-09-2010 at 07:48 AM..
director refers to department of agriculture .... under whose jurisdiction this falls.....
right now, the ONLY person subject to misdemeanor prosecution under the state statutes is a dealer who knowingly buys dogs from an unlicensed breeder..... so, the dealer is already covered......
a little off topic, but am gonna post it anyway....
did a transport yesterday and was so nice to have a dog that was NOT from a mill or byb'er for a change.... little miss lucy was so sweet and affectionate and attentive.... most of my passengers recently have been so terrified and unsocialized that they could do little more than huddle in their crates and shiver and shake..... .... the chi i moved from one foster to another friday evening actually snapped at me a couple of times..... seeing and transporting these dogs as i do is why i will vote for every reasonable anti-puppy mill / poor breeder operation legislation that comes down the pike........
man domesticated these creatures and made them COMPANION animals.... even those that work for a living..... it is man who is responsible for their health and well-being, physical and mental..... and it is man who should be punished when that responsibility is not met......
apparently, the PROSPECT of prop b being passed has some of the millers running scared..... i got an email this morning about a HUGE mill operation run by an elderly couple and their daughter that is auctioning off 800 (yes, that is EIGHT HUNDRED) dogs..... under 3 or more different kennel names, but ALL under the control of these 3 people.
for a news story that ran on these people, go here......
FOX Files: Alleged Puppy Mill Has Store in St. Peters - KTVI (http://www.fox2now.com/news/ktvi-fox-files-puppy-mill-mexico-071310,0,3789775.story - broken link)
and followups to the original story:
Overwhelming Viewer Response - Alleged Puppy Mill Store In St. Peters - KTVI (http://www.fox2now.com/news/ktvi-puppy-mill-folo-071510,0,1316315.story - broken link)
FOLLOW UP: Alleged Puppy Mill Store Closed In St. Peters - KTVI (http://www.fox2now.com/news/ktvi-puppy-mill-expo-closed-081010,0,5749993.story - broken link)
tried to include the list of dogs being sold by these people, but the table wouldn't copy over propery..... just glance through and marvel at the sheer numbers......
TEACHER’S PETS REGISTERED DOGS TO SELL ON FRIDAY OCTOBER 29th, 2010! SALE STARTS AT 9:00 AM BASSET HOUND 12 FEMALES 2 MALES 1F’07, 10F/1M’06, 1F’04, 1M’00 BEAGLE 12 FEMALES 4 MALES 2F/1M’10, 1F/1M’09, 5F’08, 2M’061F’05, 3F’02, 1F’01 SIB. HUSKY 14 FEMALES 5 MALES 1F/1M’09, 6F/1M’08, 5F’07, 1M’06, 1M’05, 2F’04, 1M’01 LABRADOR 15 FEMALES 6 MALES 8F/1M’10, 1F/1M’09, 2F’08, 3F’07, 1M’06, 1F/2M’05, 1M’02 BOXER 4 FEMALES 1 MALE 2F’07, 1M’06, 1F’05, 1F’04 JACK RUSSELL 1 FEMALE 1 MALE 1F/1M’10 BULLMASTIFF 1 FEMALE
1F’07 REG. CANE CORSO 1 FEMALE
1F’01 UNREG. CANE CORSO 4 FEMALES 1 MALE 1F’09, 2F’08, 1F’07, 1M’03 ENG. BULLDOG
3 MALES 1M’04, 1M’03, 1M’00 FRE. BULLDOG
1 MALE 1M’05 KING CHARLES CAVALIER 4 FEMALES 1 MALE 1F’07, 2F/1M’03, 1F’02 COCKER SPANIEL 29 FEMALES 10 MALES 5F/1M’10, 2F’09, 5F/1M’08, 1F’07, 2F/1M’06, 3F’04, 6F/6M’03, 2F/1M’02, 2F’01, 1F’00 SHIBA INU 1 FEMALE
Wow - that is definitely a lot of dogs. It is sad the conditions that a lot of our transports come in and hard to believe that these three people could have properly taken care of 800+ dogs. So sad, but hopefully this information being brought out will educate just a few extra people on buying a puppy responsibly or going the rescue/shelter route.
The sad thing about this is they had all those violations why werent they shut down under the current laws?
Money is always the answer to that question. Nearly all states have the regulations to stop these puppymills, and other horrible operations, yet they like the money that the licensing fees bring in. Then, when the horrible truth is brought to light, they always say they have lack of staffing, along with a myriad of other excuses. Sometimes the agencies that are there to protect the animals are no better than these operations. They both end up hurting animals. I can guarantee that if you do a search of all the operations that have been shut down whether hoarders or BYB's, they will be shut down with no hesitation because they don't pay for a license. But, as long as you pay your license fees, you will be given chance, after chance, after chance.
Money is always the answer to that question. Nearly all states have the regulations to stop these puppymills, and other horrible operations, yet they like the money that the licensing fees bring in. Then, when the horrible truth is brought to light, they always say they have lack of staffing, along with a myriad of other excuses. Sometimes the agencies that are there to protect the animals are no better than these operations. They both end up hurting animals. I can guarantee that if you do a search of all the operations that have been shut down whether hoarders or BYB's, they will be shut down with no hesitation because they don't pay for a license. But, as long as you pay your license fees, you will be given chance, after chance, after chance.
This is my concern is prop B going to really stop this or just put more rules on the people who are trying to do it right and let the puppy mills continue?
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.... the chi i moved from one foster to another friday evening actually snapped at me a couple of times..... seeing and transporting these dogs as i do is why i will vote for every reasonable anti-puppy mill / poor breeder operation legislation that comes down the pike........
So sad, but hopefully this information being brought out will educate just a few extra people on buying a puppy responsibly or going the rescue/shelter route.
