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This is my concern is prop B going to really stop this or just put more rules on the people who are trying to do it right and let the puppy mills continue?
if people are "already doing it right," then they are already adhering to the rules outlined in prop b......
when the original news story on these people ran in july, there were allegedly a THOUSAND dogs being cared for by 10 employees..... a former employee provided the tip to the tv station......
if people are "already doing it right," then they are already adhering to the rules outlined in prop b......
when the original news story on these people ran in july, there were allegedly a THOUSAND dogs being cared for by 10 employees..... a former employee provided the tip to the tv station......
I do love the less than 50 dog limit of Prop B. If passed I hope they shut every puppy mill in the state down. I just hope that the puppy mills are the ones that get shut down and all the other propaganda you here about this bill doesnt come true.
This is my concern is prop B going to really stop this or just put more rules on the people who are trying to do it right and let the puppy mills continue?
Good question...since there really isn't anything to compare it with, I have absolutely no idea. But, you will continue to have the lack of enforcement. To me, you have to give these departments incentive to care about the conditions these animals are in and close these operations down. If their incentive is decreasing revenue thus cutting jobs, can you really blame those agents for not shutting them down? How many people are going to cut their own jobs? Not to mention how many of these operations know how to fly under the radar? Probably all of them...having large populations of dogs is one thing, but to me, it is the wrong thing to chase...ensuring the dogs are healthy is of highest priority to me. These puppymills don't know what they are producing and why should they care? As long as they look like a purebred dog they still get money.
Just an example of what a hot topic this is. On the way to work on the radio every morning I hear the vote yes on prop B commercial then when us girls went to lunch in the outside foyer or the restaurant was a big Ad that said vote no on prop B and had a brochure with the following link.
Have you seen this about puppy mills in Missouri? Is anyone from Missouri who can chime in on this? Puppy mills are despicable no matter where they are, and I cringe when I read about their treatment of our sweet angels in fur coats. For a time we had dognapping going on here in Phoenix. They would steal intact females and breed them till they dropped from exhaustion, then toss them out the window like trash when they couldn't get them to breed anymore. I just don't understand how people like that can sleep at night...
The Puppy Mills is a larger issue than JUST the mills.
IF passed, it goes to court, because we ALREADY HAVE a law against puppy mills.
The Initiative is funded by the HSUS (well funded, ""donated"" to Obama, the Governor of MO, and Carnahan) their goal is to stop animal agriculture.
The wording in the Initiative sets a precedent, so that the way the interpretation could be used from dogs, to pigs, to goats, cows, horses, turkeys, chickens, and pretty much anything except house cats and racing dogs.
Check out Florida, California, and Texas, and why they cannot have more than 20 pigs per farmer (not including piglets) and in California, the law supports free range chickens (good luck with that, because what eats chickens?-->EVERYTHING)
So, this is an attack on Farmers, and agriculture, puppy mill owners hate the name "puppy mills" because it makes them sound bad (just like euthanization sounds better than murder) They're breeders, there are horse breeders and race dog breeders that are not affected by the initiative
We ALREADY have a law enforcing some of the things, but not enough executive force to enforce it, and lack of funding. for example, is a 5" by 5"12 cage considered cruel, with a solid non-wire bottom? (not sure the exact specifications, but for example...) if so, then a 5"1 by 5"13 cage with non-wire bottom might not be cruel??
Considering 72% of Missourians live in St Louis, KC, and springfield, I think we're about to take a terrible plunge into the economic recession if this passes, because the city folk dont know what its really about
Just an example of what a hot topic this is. On the way to work on the radio every morning I hear the vote yes on prop B commercial then when us girls went to lunch in the outside foyer or the restaurant was a big Ad that said vote no on prop B and had a brochure with the following link.
that website is full of the same distortions and half-truths and out-of-context quotes the breeders have been promoting since the original petition to get this on the ballot was circulating.....
somehow, i can't seem to find a THING about who this organization is or who the members are.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kings Ranger
The Puppy Mills is a larger issue than JUST the mills.
IF passed, it goes to court, because we ALREADY HAVE a law against puppy mills.
The Initiative is funded by the HSUS (well funded, ""donated"" to Obama, the Governor of MO, and Carnahan) their goal is to stop animal agriculture.
The wording in the Initiative sets a precedent, so that the way the interpretation could be used from dogs, to pigs, to goats, cows, horses, turkeys, chickens, and pretty much anything except house cats and racing dogs.
Check out Florida, California, and Texas, and why they cannot have more than 20 pigs per farmer (not including piglets) and in California, the law supports free range chickens (good luck with that, because what eats chickens?-->EVERYTHING)
So, this is an attack on Farmers, and agriculture, puppy mill owners hate the name "puppy mills" because it makes them sound bad (just like euthanization sounds better than murder) They're breeders, there are horse breeders and race dog breeders that are not affected by the initiative
We ALREADY have a law enforcing some of the things, but not enough executive force to enforce it, and lack of funding. for example, is a 5" by 5"12 cage considered cruel, with a solid non-wire bottom? (not sure the exact specifications, but for example...) if so, then a 5"1 by 5"13 cage with non-wire bottom might not be cruel??
Considering 72% of Missourians live in St Louis, KC, and springfield, I think we're about to take a terrible plunge into the economic recession if this passes, because the city folk dont know what its really about
20 pigs per farmer in texas and florida and california?? free range chickens ONLY in california?? REALLY??????
you obviously did not read my post above where i researched the revised statutes of teh state of missouri..... not a WORD about puppy mills being illegal or punishable in a court of law......
that website is full of the same distortions and half-truths and out-of-context quotes the breeders have been promoting since the original petition to get this on the ballot was circulating.....
somehow, i can't seem to find a THING about who this organization is or who the members are.....
20 pigs per farmer in texas and florida and california?? free range chickens ONLY in california?? REALLY??????
you obviously did not read my post above where i researched the revised statutes of teh state of missouri..... not a WORD about puppy mills being illegal or punishable in a court of law......
You don't understand, yes, free range chickens only, Californians were well-aware, but Missourians are extremely ignorant about the Initiative
There is already a law in place punishing puppy mills, when we can find them, but its not like money is being spent to hire more law enforcers to catch the bad guys doing this.
This is what the HSUS does, they find an emotional subject, puppies being hurt, then put in place a Proposition to get the problem fixed.
Or so it seems?
They've done it in 3 states, Illinois, actually voted against it (small victory) but there's another Initiative being built back up to be put on the ballot. Apparantly, 3 more states have similar laws to be voted on, funded by the HSUS (just heard that today havent looked into it much)
The end-goal is an animal-free agriculture, and by wording the Initiatives correctly, they can set a precedent that will make that possible, as we have seen happen.
I personally love McDonalds, and their $1 menu. Once the 2nd largest beef producing states is only allowed to have 1 cow per 10 acres of farmland (scientifically proven they can live off of 1 perfectly fine) beef prices will skyrocket, and Beef will be for the rich.
HSUS is a FOR-Profit organization and less than .05% of their budget goes to actually helping animals.
You don't understand, yes, free range chickens only, Californians were well-aware, but Missourians are extremely ignorant about the Initiative
There is already a law in place punishing puppy mills, when we can find them, but its not like money is being spent to hire more law enforcers to catch the bad guys doing this.
This is what the HSUS does, they find an emotional subject, puppies being hurt, then put in place a Proposition to get the problem fixed.
Or so it seems?
They've done it in 3 states, Illinois, actually voted against it (small victory) but there's another Initiative being built back up to be put on the ballot. Apparantly, 3 more states have similar laws to be voted on, funded by the HSUS (just heard that today havent looked into it much)
The end-goal is an animal-free agriculture, and by wording the Initiatives correctly, they can set a precedent that will make that possible, as we have seen happen.
I personally love McDonalds, and their $1 menu. Once the 2nd largest beef producing states is only allowed to have 1 cow per 10 acres of farmland (scientifically proven they can live off of 1 perfectly fine) beef prices will skyrocket, and Beef will be for the rich.
HSUS is a FOR-Profit organization and less than .05% of their budget goes to actually helping animals.
PLEASE.... by all means.... show me where there is a criminal charge and/or penalty for breeder abuse.....
here is a link to the applicable chapter of the Revised Statutes of the State of Missouri to make your search a little easier......
I have read these statutes and i don't see anything...... have you??
as far as the rest of what you claim.... where is your proof of that?? all i am hearing is a regurgitation of distortions, quotes-out-of-context and imagination run wild.....
HSUS is an organization that promotes animal welfare.... not animal RIGHTS as you and so many of your compadres claim..... there is a BIG difference.... PETA promotes animal rights.... and many of those people are just plain crazy..... SOMEone has to step up to the plate and push for legislation that protects the health and wellbeing of the creatures that MAN domesticated and made dependent......
HSUS is NOT affiliated with local or even statewide Humane organizations and does not claim to be..... i'll be the first to admit i am not cool with everything that is done in the name of HSUS, but then, i can't think of any organization that does not have issues..... can you??
I'm all for seeing puppy mills the likes of the one's we've seen in the news the past two years in Missouri go away completely. Unfortunately, despite the claims of supporters of Proposition B, I don't see where this legislation will accomplish that any more than the law that is currently in place. There do not seem to be any further teeth as far as enforcement; and, those people who failed to license before will continue to do so. Sadly, I don't think a misdemeanor charge/conviction means much in this day and age as far as being a deterent to potential puppy mill owners/operators. I'd rather see good legislation passed than just passing legislation that appears will have little real impact in current and future unlicensed puppy mill owners/operators.
And what's so wrong with limiting the amount of dogs a breeder can own? And what's wrong with saying breeder's can't medically treat their own dogs? These regulations are clearly directed at puppy mills...which is a good thing (IMO).
Well, who the regulations are directed at and who they affect, in reality, can be two very different groups.
What's right about limiting the number of dogs a breeder (or anyone) can own? Is is more important that the dogs are well cared for, or that there is a specific number of them? Why is 50 dogs ok, and 51 dogs bad? Is there something about that 51st dog that changes everything?
Why shouldn't breeders (or anyone) medically treat their own dogs? I give my dog Frontline, I've given her deworming pills. Many owners give their own dewormers and heartworm preventatives. And treat minor cuts and scrapes. I know some rescues that give their own vaccinations, purchased from a vet supply company. Why shouldn't breeders also be allowed to do these things?
Current regs already require a vet to be on staff:
Quote:
Each licensee shall employ an attending veterinarian under formal arrangements, including a written
program of veterinary care and regularly scheduled visits, to provide adequate veterinary care to all
animals covered under 2 CSR 30-9.
The attending veterinarian has appropriate authority to ensure the provision of adequate veterinary
care and to oversee the adequacy of other aspects of animal care and use.
2CSR 30-9.030 2C2, 2003
Section 273.344 and 273.346 RSMO 1994
but are not so restrictive as to require a vet to treat a minor cut or scrape, as the proposed legislation would seem to require:
Quote:
“Necessary veterinary care” means, at a minimum, examination
at least once yearly by a licensed veterinarian,
prompt treatment of any illness or injury by a licensed
veterinarian; and, where needed,
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