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Ok so I have a question for all you Dog Parents out there..
I have 4 Danes..one of my females (Mia) she is 6 yrs old..This past Monday morning just out of the blue started having seizures one right after another..(she was fine before all this, she was her normal self). We rushed her to the Vet, they ended up sedating her to calm the seizures, Dr said it would help rewire her brain. They also ran blood work which came bad good says all her organs are healthy and their were no toxins causing the seizures.. So therefore we have no idea what would have caused this. Their normal routines, food, etc haven't changed.
Over the weekend we boarded them at the usual place which is a Vet while we were out of town and They all had to get a Bordetella shot..which they do in this state (KY) every 6 months..is it really needed so often??? (In NC they gave these shots once a yr) She also has anxiety, both of my females have anxiety. I did call the vet where we board them to see if they seen any changes in her this weekend and they said no that she was fine ate good and played normal. She is home now and doing good and so far no more seizures. The drs gave her some Valium for a few days to help keep her from getting overly excited.
She has always been our healthy Dane never had any illnesses or anything. So We are both scratching our heads trying to figure out what would have caused this, but can't come up with anything except for maybe the Bordetella shot..and believe me we have questioned everything!! We thought maybe she was bitten by a spider but no marks proving this, or could her anxiety have caused this..drs says maybe but usually that happens during the time shes having the anxiety, we ask about the bordetella shot he said it could but thats very rare? We looked around the yard and inside the garage/house to see if she got into something and theres nothing she could have gotten into.. we are just at a loss and only thing that we could come up with is this bordetella shot which shes never had a reaction to before..could they have given her a little too much? Ughhhh
My question is has anyone else ever had this problem with their Dog or If you have Danes and did you find out what caused it?
I've only had one dog who had seizures and it wasn't a happy ending - I'll spare you the details but I will point out my dog was a bit older when he had them.
If I remember correctly, epilepsy is diagnosed usually at about 6 years. Did your vet mention it at all?
As for bordetella, I only give my dogs that shot if it is required for the kennel or something. It's not something I give them every year or even regularly. Did your vet mention if there's any way to test if this was an allergic reaction to the shot?
I've only had one dog who had seizures and it wasn't a happy ending - I'll spare you the details but I will point out my dog was a bit older when he had them.
If I remember correctly, epilepsy is diagnosed usually at about 6 years. Did your vet mention it at all?
As for bordetella, I only give my dogs that shot if it is required for the kennel or something. It's not something I give them every year or even regularly. Did your vet mention if there's any way to test if this was an allergic reaction to the shot?
Hope things are okay with your girl!
Aww sorry for your loss..
Yes we have talked about every situation with the drs.. he didn't think she had epilepsy, but wont know unless she has another episode. Does epilepsy just come on all the sudden? Because she has never ever had seizures before. Guess I need to do some more research. :-/
They only get the bordetella shots when they are being boarded.. it was over 6 months since we last boarded the dogs and is required where we board them. For some strange reason KY requires the bordetella every 6 months regardless of whether they are being boarded or not..but we do NOT get the shot unless they are being boarded and its past the 6 month mark. I do not know if there is a way to find out if she had a reaction to the shot. I did ask and of course when you mention something like that they seem to avoid the questions and say its very rare.
on the bordatella, personally I REFUSE this shot completely, but obviously if its required for your boarding facility...
heres why...there are MANY strains of bordatella, MANY (over 300 found so far) the bordatella shot only covers for 3 or 4 of the MOST COMMON strains of bordatella (aka kenel cough), and it only remains effective in the body for about 3-4 months...
its also a rather common one (in toy breeds at least) to cause allergic reactions and seizures CAN be a side effect.
so personally I refuse it compeltly its only realy nessicary for dogs that spend time around other dogs (ie boarding facilities) and bordatella itself is only REALY dangerous for dogs with compromised iune systems (think of it like a human cold, for a normal healthy adult you get a little sick and you get over it, but elderly folks or infancts its dangerous)
if you MUST give bordatella for boarding I would ONLY give it before bording and id give it at minimum 1 week BEFORE the boarding date...
why? because stress/anxiety/hyperactivity increases the risk of seizures in a normally healthy dog.
this way the bordatella has a week to settle and your dogs not immediately being exposed to stressors (even mild) while the immune system is already mildly compromised.
in terms of the seizures.
1: take a deep breath, its MUCH scarier for you than it was for her! (im epileptic, I know lol.)
2: try not to worry, seizures can be triggered by SOOOO many thinkgs that its impossible to realy say whats going on with 1 episode
3: DO NOT MEDICATE, anti seizure medication is SOMETIMES pushed at the first sighn of any seizure medication, anti seizure medication can have some pretty nasty side effects, a good vet will only routeinly medicate seizures if they are happening multiple times per week for at least a month.
the valium for a couple days...ehh, personaly I wouldn't bother, but you've got to do what feels right, but otherwise for now at least...
4: KEEP A JOURNAL, with this episode as the first entry...hopefully youll NEVER need to make another entry...but you want to write down anything and everything you can about the episode (and if needed in the future the same no matter how seemingly silly ro trivial, something as simple as "cloudy day" or "was cooking bacon in the red pan" could show you a pattern should this happen again. seizure disorders (when they are disorders and not just a one off) tend to have patterns, Triggers.
in terms of your situation, you have a breed that can be more prone to seizures later in life, who was reacently vaccinated and was in a stressfull high energy (even if they like the kennel its still a form of stress to the body) situation, then was excited because mommy and daddy came home, and the scedual changed again, it could have simply been the brain got excitmenet overloaded and blew a fuse, it could be her blood sugar was off that day (blood sugar is a very common cause), it could have been the kennel used a different kind of cleaner, or you could have had a perfume on you from someone you bumped into (scents are very common triggers) things that might even not even catch your attention (the way the light shines through the trees when your driving can EASILY trigger light induces seizures just like a strobelight), ect...theres just sooo many causes.
if it happens again and you can SAFELY check her gums (wait till shes starting to come around) if her gums are pale its likely a blood sugar issue!
any vet trying to offer an epilepsy diagnosis (esepcally with good bloodwork) after 1 episode id run away from...
otherwise keep track, watch her, keep notes, and IF it happens again theres some rules to follow.
1: make sure shes on the floor (gently move her to the floor if possible) you don't want her falling off the bed or couch.
2: do NOT put your hands neer her mouth while shes actively seizing, she doesn't know your there (and if she does (ie a petite) shes not in control of her muscular contractions, she may ACCIEENTALLY bite you and that adds to the stress level.
3: REMAIN calm, its a stressfull situation but to the dog/person whos seizing other than feeling like yuck for a while afterwards its realy not that big a deal...however dogs feel human stress, if YOU are tense and freeking out, SHELL be tense and freeking out...its hard I know and 30 seconds feels like 30 mins, but remain calm, if shes just mildly swizing/twitching ect, pet her gently along her rib cage and talk to her, tactile and pressure stimulation can help interrupt...if shes actively seizing make sure she cant hit herself on anything and wait it out, once shes starting to come round sit with her and talk calmly to her and pet her.
4: once shes aware offer her something to drink, preferably something with electrolytes (a ltitle chicken or beef broth or a little bit of sugar water...seizures are muscularly energy fdraining they leave you dehydrated and TIRED.
I wouldn't run to the vet everytime personally, but if it happens more than a few times a week and your starting to see patterns id open communication with the vet.
the only way to tell if it was the bordatella would be to give it again and see if she has the same reaction...
I will say however bordatella is NOT required by law in the state of KY...
boarding, grooming, daycare and dogparks can ASK for it as a requirement for services and deny services to anyone that doesn't have it...but BY LAW you are NOT required to give it...
the ONLY vaccine required by law is RABIES.
Wolfeyes -- I'm sorry. Seizures are really scary, especially if the dog vocalizes during them!
My shih tzu started having seizures and was diagnosed with idiopathic epilepsy when he was 15. He typically had cluster seizures, and the first one usually happened when he was resting. I believe his heart was not pumping enough blood to his brain, and he seized as a result of that, but of course that was only a theory.*
Barnaby was unusual in one big way from most dogs who have seizures. To break his cluster cycle, I had to get him moving in very gentle exercise. A slow, easy walk out of the house, for example. Otherwise, we'd end up at the emergency vet. This is NOT to suggest you do the same, this is to say that as you move forward with your dog, observation about her triggers and reactions will really help you understand her particular situation.
Barnaby took Keppra (Levetiracetam) for seizures, and it worked well. I also kept Valium with a kit on-hand to administer if he ever got into a prolonged seizure (which, thank goodness, he didn't!).
Also, he got the bordetella vaccine every year with no problems.
(Barnaby is, sadly, deceased, but not from seizures. His heart failed. I knew about his heart issue at the time his seizures started and was treating that concurrently.)
the only way to tell if it was the bordatella would be to give it again and see if she has the same reaction...
I will say however bordatella is NOT required by law in the state of KY...
boarding, grooming, daycare and dogparks can ASK for it as a requirement for services and deny services to anyone that doesn't have it...but BY LAW you are NOT required to give it...
the ONLY vaccine required by law is RABIES.
That's Not what the Vets told me.. When we first moved here from NC and took them in for their shots at the new..new for us.. Vet...They looked at their records from the Vet back home in NC and said they were due for a Bordetella, we ask why only because they were there for shots not boarding, they said by Law in the state of KY they have to give them every 6 months. My husband and I both looked at each other like huh I told the Vet they were crazy and it was an unnecessary shot, but since it was the "law" we had the shot done... after that we didn't do it again until they were going to be boarded. And all the other Vets around here said the same! We thought it was weird because Our Vet back home only gave them a bordetella shot once a yr if necessary only due to boarding.
Wolfeyes -- I'm sorry. Seizures are really scary, especially if the dog vocalizes during them!
My shih tzu started having seizures and was diagnosed with idiopathic epilepsy when he was 15. He typically had cluster seizures, and the first one usually happened when he was resting. I believe his heart was not pumping enough blood to his brain, and he seized as a result of that, but of course that was only a theory.*
Barnaby was unusual in one big way from most dogs who have seizures. To break his cluster cycle, I had to get him moving in very gentle exercise. A slow, easy walk out of the house, for example. Otherwise, we'd end up at the emergency vet. This is NOT to suggest you do the same, this is to say that as you move forward with your dog, observation about her triggers and reactions will really help you understand her particular situation.
Barnaby took Keppra (Levetiracetam) for seizures, and it worked well. I also kept Valium with a kit on-hand to administer if he ever got into a prolonged seizure (which, thank goodness, he didn't!).
Also, he got the bordetella vaccine every year with no problems.
(Barnaby is, sadly, deceased, but not from seizures. His heart failed. I knew about his heart issue at the time his seizures started and was treating that concurrently.)
Thanks for the advise.. Yea its hard to get a dog moving that weighs 130lbs..but we will do whatever it takes if she continues to have them.. so far she hasn't had anymore.. hoping it stays that way but ya never know.
Sorry for your loss..
reaction to bordetella is rare...but rare doesn't mean impossible
and I have checked every KY state legislation for animals and livestock, nowhere can I find anything requiring bordatella, (lots of laws re Rabies however, ky is one of the few starts REQUIRING rabies shots for Cats and ferrets)
again it may be required by them SPECIFICALLY for clients who may at some time board, but I can find nothing in any of the KY legislations in reguards to ANY required vaccine other than rabies.
many more reacently graduated veterinarians are now not even offering bordetella as an option unless specifically requested (ie for boarding/grooming/daycare requirments)
Yes we usually get the bordetella shot a few days before boarding but this time and one other time they had it done while being boarded (the other time she did not have a reaction) and they get very anxious while in boarding they love being there but they do seem to stress over it a lil.
I have never heard great things about this type of shot that's why we only have done if they are boarding and are due for the shot, otherwise they don't get it.
Not giving her any seizures meds unless it continues to happen. Just the Valium for now.
While she was at the vet that morning he did check her gums to see if her sugar was low he said her gums looked fine.. thats why we think it could have been the bordetella shot that caused all this.
The Journal idea was told to me yesterday that is a very good idea...Thanks.
And I agree my freaking out probably didn't help..but I had no clue what was going on until she kept doing it over and over..her seizures started off maybe lasting 30seconds (she would stiffen up like a board and slobbering all over the place)...then longer and longer each time.. the last few times lasted for more than a minute..they had to sedate her to make them stop. She really didn't get much of a break in between the seizures even the dr said he wasn't sure she would pull thru but some how she did.
Thanks for all the advise..I really do appreciate it.
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She is home now and doing good and so far no more seizures. The drs gave her some Valium for a few days to help keep her from getting overly excited. 
I told the Vet they were crazy and it was an unnecessary shot, but since it was the "law" we had the shot done... after that we didn't do it again until they were going to be boarded. And all the other Vets around here said the same! We thought it was weird because Our Vet back home only gave them a bordetella shot once a yr if necessary only due to boarding.
