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What I gather from a lot of these responses is that very few ever really owned 'working dogs', and if you did or do, you'd rather them not exercise their traits or abilities. That is kinda sad, actually. I pity the aussies or the bird dogs that never get a chance to do what they were bred (and enjoy to do).
Herding breeds excel at agility for the same reasons they excel at working stock...they are very sensitive to movement, naturally respond to space pressure from their handler, most can turn on a dime...and they are very happy working agility sequences along with the foundational stuff that goes hand in hand with training/maintaining competition agility dogs. Herding breeds don't need sheep to enjoy life but they do need a good substitute.
There are two pretty distinct groups of Aussies...conformation lines and working lines. Some of the conformation bred dogs are actually pretty laid back and don't need much of a job. Dogs from working lines are not for the faint of heart. If you do bird dogs just think Goldens and you'll know what I mean.
That said, I've put all my Aussies on sheep to evaluate their instinct and working style. And we dabble in herding to have fun. It's far and away the hardest thing I've ever attempted...the obstacles are constantly moving and my dogs are trying to teach me! It is awesome to see them do what comes naturally.
Herding breeds don't need sheep to enjoy life but they do need a good substitute.
Exactly. I will expand my comment that a lot of breeds like 'purpose'.
I know at least 3 ranchers that have sheep or milk goats, one has a bunch of animals including llamas. To defend against predation they own Shepherds that stay outside even during brutal Montana winters to do their jobs. The dogs stay in shelter with the animals.
Is that cruel? I don't think so. The dog has purpose, they knew it. Same with my uncles GSDs on the family farm. We had no fox in our chicken coop.
I'm not sure what your last statement was meant to infer, but if you think my dogs are 'isolated' by my hand or that I don't value them as companions you are sorely mistaken. As I said- my blue tick WANTED to live outdoors. She had and made the choice, and I accommodated. At the end of a long day hunting birds My GSP's are in my camper on my bed after a nice wash and wipe down, a big bowl of kibble, venison bits and raw eggs.
If they want to stay outside all day like they did today, great! I'm not fearful of the mountain lions, coyotes, eagles, bears or other 'scary' animals that roam the north hills that may harm my precious.
I give my dogs freedom to be dogs, and they give me companionship and cooperation.
Pretty good life.
I will allow that I may have read too far between the lines, but the mention of the kennels and the financial investment were a huge red flag. And then there the certain "sub-set" of sport dog owners who intentionally keep their dogs isolated so that when the human finally shows up the dogs are amped and ready to go. I apologize if I misjudged the situation.
I think it great to allow dogs to be dogs- wonderful for canine and human alike. However, allowing a dog to be a dog is one thing; potentially allowing them to get into a dangerous situation vis a vis the mountain lions, coyotes, et al is an entirely different situation. As the human component, it is our responsibility to keep our dogs safe and out of harms way, whether that be other wildlife, other humans with ill intent, or automobiles.
Exactly. I will expand my comment that a lot of breeds like 'purpose'.
I know at least 3 ranchers that have sheep or milk goats, one has a bunch of animals including llamas. To defend against predation they own Shepherds that stay outside even during brutal Montana winters to do their jobs. The dogs stay in shelter with the animals.
Is that cruel? I don't think so. The dog has purpose, they knew it. Same with my uncles GSDs on the family farm. We had no fox in our chicken coop.
In cattle country many ranchers use Aussies to both move their cattle and as stock/property guardians. These dogs are appreciated as valuable ranch hands. Pretty tough to do that job well if kept inside. That said, working cowdogs do lead a dangerous life. There are countless stories of Aussies saving a family member from a cantankerous bull. Injury and death are not uncommon. Just the way it is for a working ranch dog.
No comparison to a companion dog on so many levels although some working dogs are loved dearly for more than their ranch hand skills.
IME most companion dog owners who leave their dogs outside unsupervised for long periods are doing their dogs a disservice. That said, some companion dogs do prefer being outside. It depends on the dog.
I will allow that I may have read too far between the lines, but the mention of the kennels and the financial investment were a huge red flag. And then there the certain "sub-set" of sport dog owners who intentionally keep their dogs isolated so that when the human finally shows up the dogs are amped and ready to go. I apologize if I misjudged the situation.
I think it great to allow dogs to be dogs- wonderful for canine and human alike. However, allowing a dog to be a dog is one thing; potentially allowing them to get into a dangerous situation vis a vis the mountain lions, coyotes, et al is an entirely different situation. As the human component, it is our responsibility to keep our dogs safe and out of harms way, whether that be other wildlife, other humans with ill intent, or automobiles.
There is risk in hunting with dogs.
We have had dogs hurt by bear.
A few years ago a friend paid a lot of money for a great bear hunting dog.........the first hunt a bear fell out of a tree and landed on the dog........it killed the dog.
We do all we can to keep the dogs safe........but, these dogs want to hunt.
I will allow that I may have read too far between the lines, but the mention of the kennels and the financial investment were a huge red flag. And then there the certain "sub-set" of sport dog owners who intentionally keep their dogs isolated so that when the human finally shows up the dogs are amped and ready to go. I apologize if I misjudged the situation.
I think it great to allow dogs to be dogs- wonderful for canine and human alike. However, allowing a dog to be a dog is one thing; potentially allowing them to get into a dangerous situation vis a vis the mountain lions, coyotes, et al is an entirely different situation. As the human component, it is our responsibility to keep our dogs safe and out of harms way, whether that be other wildlife, other humans with ill intent, or automobiles.
You fail to understand that it is quite common for a dog to be that line of defense against predation of stock animals, or protection of assets. That is their purpose, and you or I should not be judge of the owner that utilizes their dogs as such.
I own Basenji's too. Is the African bushmans duty to keep his village Basenji's from danger by not allowing them in the forest? It's funny that americans seem to have become the 'protector' of these animals when in most cases they were bred to do that for us.
I am just wondering, How many people think it is ok to leave a dog outside whether you are home or not?
Of course with shelter and water. Why is this better or not better than keeping them crated all day inside?
Those aren't your only two choices.
Ours roam the house free all day when we aren't there or if we are there.
Outside is a bad idea if you aren't there bc of weather, thieves, escape, other animals, etc.
Outside is a bad idea if you ARE there bc these are pack animals who want to be with their humans.
You fail to understand that it is quite common for a dog to be that line of defense against predation of stock animals, or protection of assets. That is their purpose, and you or I should not be judge of the owner that utilizes their dogs as such.
I own Basenji's too. Is the African bushmans duty to keep his village Basenji's from danger by not allowing them in the forest? It's funny that americans seem to have become the 'protector' of these animals when in most cases they were bred to do that for us.
That was quite condescending. I understand perfectly the role of LGD. I also understand the difference between an LGD, a herding dog, and the various types of hunting dogs.
Whatever the "historical" role of dogs and their breeding- which is very much up for debate, even by qualified scholars- in contemporary culture it is utterly irresponsible to put your dog in a potentially dangerous and totally avoidable situation and then expect them to protect themselves (and you). It is ridiculously illogical on multiple levels to compare acceptable practices in an African village to acceptable practices in this country.
You might want to be aware that this forum includes people from a broad range of backgrounds including training (companion animals, MWD, therapy and assistance dogs, etc), rescue, rehabilitation, legitimate breeders, and behavior. Your arrogance and condescension are unwarranted.
I hope you don't take the same tone with your dogs that you take here in your posts.
That was quite condescending. I understand perfectly the role of LGD. I also understand the difference between an LGD, a herding dog, and the various types of hunting dogs.
Whatever the "historical" role of dogs and their breeding- which is very much up for debate, even by qualified scholars- in contemporary culture it is utterly irresponsible to put your dog in a potentially dangerous and totally avoidable situation and then expect them to protect themselves (and you). It is ridiculously illogical on multiple levels to compare acceptable practices in an African village to acceptable practices in this country.
You might want to be aware that this forum includes people from a broad range of backgrounds including training (companion animals, MWD, therapy and assistance dogs, etc), rescue, rehabilitation, legitimate breeders, and behavior. Your arrogance and condescension are unwarranted.
I hope you don't take the same tone with your dogs that you take here in your posts.
I found your comment quite disturbing and condescending as well. 'Our duty as humans to keep them from harms way'? That's the same tone I got from several anonymous 'rep points' from people who chastised me for allowing my dog to get hurt by barbed wire when he ran into it while chasing pheasants, and how it was cruel and they'd never let their dogs do that.
If they were completely out of harms way my dogs would never get a chance to do what the really love to do. Crickey if I wanted my kids to be out of harms way they would never hike, rock climb, camp or do anything they like to do in Griz country either.
At least I respect you for posting in open forum.
Last edited by Threerun; 04-25-2015 at 06:37 AM..
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It is awesome to see them do what comes naturally.
