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I didn't ask if it changed your mind. I don't care if it changed your mind. I only care that readers learn about the newly documented effects of S/N based on several large studies and use that information to make the best decision for their pets based on their personal circumstances and abilities.
Unfortunately, I think it's an incorrect (and to be honest naive) assumption that people will make a rational and researched decision as to what is best "for their pets based on their personal circumstances and abilities" and that after making a reasoned decision, these people will be able to prevent an intact dog from breeding and manage any behavioral issues that arise. I think that is going to be true for only a small percentage of people. I think most people will read the article (or just this thread) and only see the words "it's better not to spay or neuter my pet" so they won't, regardless of their inability to keep an intact dog from reproducing or deal with the other complications of not spaying or neutering and as a result, it's the dogs that will pay the price.
Unfortunately, I think it's an incorrect (and to be honest naive) assumption that people will make a rational and researched decision as to what is best "for their pets based on their personal circumstances and abilities." I think that may be true for a small percentage of people. I think most people will read the article (or just this thread) and only see the message "it's better not to spay or neuter my pet" so they won't regardless of their inability to keep an intact dog from reproducing or deal with the other complications of not spaying or neutering.
Some might. But is that a reason to stop the dissemination of information? If so, that's a pretty dictatorial view and one I am 100% opposed to personally. YMMV.
If people read "just this thread"...even just the first page of posts...they will get a heavy dose of how awful it would be to keep a dog intact as that's by far the predominant attitude on this thread. So they would actually need to read the article to see any downside to S/N and I suspect, although this is not substantiated in any way, that most people do not read linked articles but merely browse the postings.
If people read the linked article they will not get the message that it's better to keep a dog or cat intact unless that's the only message they want to see since they would have to ignore other clearly presented parts of the article. So who is wearing these blinders? Most people with an anti-S/N bias historically keep their pets intact and don't need fuel for their already blazing fire. Other readers who might miss the entire message of the article may not have bias but instead have lazy minds and just latch onto the first thing they see. If such readers take their dog to any vet for anything...even just a Rabies shot...that vet will likely strongly advise S/N. If they bring up the article that vet will likely make every effort to strongly dissuade them and disagree with the article unless the vet feels they are in that small percentage of people you reference and perhaps not even then. That lazy mind will be easily persuaded back to S/N since S/N will now be in front of them and recommended by the expert. And with people so negligent regarding their pet's health care (for whatever reason) that they don't even take their pet to a vet for a Rabies shot, they aren't gonna S/N that pet regardless...they don't take their pets to the vet.
S/N is a very strong cultural responsibility in many areas of our country as a result of years of advertising. Certainly there are areas where S/N is not well utilized and that is likely a combination of cultural bias and lack of education. If people in such areas haven't been exposed to promotional S/N advertising do you really think they are gonna see this article? Or the studies? This article may serve as support for those who are against S/N due to cultural bias but guess what...they were already against it.
For these reasons I do not anticipate the backlash from this article that you do although I understand your concern.
I don't understand what you mean by that statement. A lot of people who are poor really do love and want to give the proper vet care for their pets, including spay/neuter. Some of them do not know there are low cost programs out there. For example, I was at a local county sponsored rabies clinic this past Saturday. I overheard this lady who brought her puppy to get the low cost rabies shot talk about how she would like fix her dog but couldn't afford it. Her friend tells her that the county offers a $50 spay for her dog as long as she provides proof of income. Sometimes a little help goes a long way.
My statement was not referring to ooops breeding. It was referring to backyard / mill breeding. Many (not all, but many) of the underground breeding "community" are lower income. In my part of the country, many have shall we say limited command of English.
it appears that choosing to keep their dogs intact is the responsible thing to do since it is much better for the dog's health.
Wow. No. You are incorrect.
Leaving a male dog intact will almost certainly lead to late-in-life surgery to neuter it once it develops prostate or testicular cancer. Female dogs have a high likelihood of developing pyometra if left intact. Leaving any dog intact to endure the angst and isolation of going through breeding cycles over and over again is just mean.
Go talk to any vet if you have any doubts that spaying and neutering is the healthy thing to do for your animal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jumpindogs it appears that choosing to keep their dogs intact is the responsible thing to do since it is much better for the dog's health.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mizzile
Wow. No. You are incorrect.
Leaving a male dog intact will almost certainly lead to late-in-life surgery to neuter it once it develops prostate or testicular cancer. Female dogs have a high likelihood of developing pyometra if left intact. Leaving any dog intact to endure the angst and isolation of going through breeding cycles over and over again is just mean.
Go talk to any vet if you have any doubts that spaying and neutering is the healthy thing to do for your animal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jumpindogs it appears that choosing to keep their dogs intact is the responsible thing to do since it is much better for the dog's health.
Did you read the article? And the linked studies?
Yes. And you need to do more informed reading of your own. Or just find a reputable veterinarian.
Yes. And you need to do more informed reading of your own. Or just find a reputable veterinarian.
The article in question was written by a reputable veterinarian.
Neither the article's author nor the OP suggested that the average pet owner should stop spaying/neutering their pets.
The article simply presented new information to those of us who wish to be informed pet owners.
You may or may not agree with the premise of the article, but speaking for myself as a very well-educated person capable of critical thought processes, I WANT to have this sort of information available and appreciate that the OP posted it.
Last edited by twelvepaw; 09-17-2015 at 06:04 AM..
I like to think people in general are not idiots. I like to believe if given unbiased real information, whether they agree or not, people would grow wiser, if not smarter.
I'm taught in college that you must question everything before you. There are always more questions than answers.
Jumpingdog is doing exactly that. No matter what your position is in this "spay or no spat" argument, she provided good information. Results made by reputable veterinarians who do this job for the love of animals and spent countless hours, weeks, years... to produce that one link of results. The information do not appeared to be paid for or sponsored by breeders or those who like to keep their pets intact.
Her thread title is clear. Did anyone miss the word "rethink"? Her messages posted on this thread are clear.
At the end of the day, there will always be people who breed their dogs, intentionally or not. There is a small number of people who succeeded keeping intact dogs without breeding them. How can we dismiss that? Perhaps we could look more into this. Perhaps a push for an affordable contraceptive device for our dogs or a less invasive procedure that would be just as effective to prevent unwanted litters. Instead, people in general panic in fear, jump into the bandwagon of naysayers and pretend only their reality exists.
Our dogs rely on our own decisions. Be wiser for their sake.
Perhaps a push for an affordable contraceptive device for our dogs or a less invasive procedure that would be just as effective to prevent unwanted litters.
Puppy Culture just posted a great article by renowned canine sports veterinarian Dr. Chris Zink on spay/neuter considerations and I remembered this thread. Apologies for the resurrection but some may find this link interesting. It is certainly subject appropriate.
I went through just ONE heat with one of our purebred female Labs thinking I "might" breed her. Ugh! That was enough to cure my way of thinking.
No thanks! I have to hand it to responsible breeders for living with a female/multiple females in heat.
Blood isn't the only issue: The whole time she was in heat, we had my girlfriend's (who was also our neighbor) male Golden HOWLING at our door at 5 am. She put him out at 5 am when she had had enough of listening to him howling in HER house all night LOL. She kept him intact because she used him for breeding. I was just glad he was the only male who showed up.
There's no way in H*ll I will ever NOT spay my female dogs. (we don't own males but if I did, I'd neuter them too)
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Dr. Chris Zink on spay/neuter
