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Thank you for all the replies. Just a quick update. I took her to my parents' house in the morning as she was on my face and pulling on my hair while I read this post on my phone. I left her there for an hour as I took my other dog for a car ride and to spend some time with her. Just when the puppy was about to fall asleep, I picked her up and came home. I put her in the crate and she whined a little bit and not too loudly as she done before and now she is asleep in her crate. When should I open the door? When she is awake? Also, is it okay to leave water in a crate? She drinks frequently in tiny amounts but I'm afraid she might accidentally drown herself.
Keep in mind that she's a puppy so she has a very small bladder. She cannot hold it for 8 hours right now. She needs to be going out every few hours.
As for the water, she won't drown herself, and you don't need it in there because she's not going to be in there for hours on end.
As someone else mentioned, she is not going to mess her crate if she:
a) does not have a lot of space to make a mess in one corner of the crate and be able to move away from it
b) gets taken out every few hours...she has to be taken out every few hours.
Remember, YOU are in charge, not her. There's a few times that you've written about what she wants, but you decide everything right now. You decide when she eats, when she plays, when she goes to the bathroom, etc. YOU are the decision maker, not her. If you allow your pup to tell you when she wants to do things, you're going to have a hellion on your hands in short order.
I will stress this again: Please go to Leerburg's site, and please order the DVD "Your Puppy 8 weeks to 8 months". Almost everything that you've been asking about is going to be answered on that DVD. He explains everything in terms that are very easy to understand, very easy to put in to practice, and gives you tips you didn't even think of....they seems small, but they are huge for your relationship with your dog. Please, order that DVD. You will be grateful that you did.
If you follow what he says on that DVD, you don't need puppy classes. You WILL need training for you, not your dog. Let that sink in: Any training that you get is for YOU to understand how to be your dog's leader.
Also, I forgot to add this yesterday: You talked about socializing your pup. That's fine to socialize, but also keep in mind, some dogs don't like other dogs. That's fine, too. Your dog doesn't have to like other dogs. There's no rule that says that they have to be friends with other dogs. You just want them to be able to tolerate other dogs, not act like Cujo every time they see another dog. If your dog has no interest in other dogs, there's nothing wrong with that.
And putting this out there now even though your pup isn't ready: If you do take her to a dog park, I highly, highly recommend that you go there a few times without her. Watch the other people. How hands on are they with their dogs? Are they up and active, playing with the dogs? Or are they sitting at a picnic table with their backs turned on their dogs, not paying attention? You do not want to take your dog to a park with people who use it as an excuse to be lazy about dog exercising...those are the people who take their dog to the park, release the leash, and then go sit down and talk to others. Not a good place. I say go a few times because you want to visit different days of the week, different times to see who comes in and when.
When you do finally find a park that is good that you like and the people aren't idiots, do not take your dog in the first couple of times. Seriously. Again, never allow a stranger dog to come flying up to your dog, especially this young. You need to build trust and respect, and allowing a stranger dog to come flying up to your dog is not building that trust or respect. Again, your dog needs to know that you will protect her. Throwing her in to a dog park with unknown dogs is not protecting her, in her eyes.
The first few times, all you do is go to the park, keep her on leash, and sit outside of it at the fence. Let her watch. I don't care how eager she is to go inside, don't do it yet. She needs to watch. You need to watch the park, the dogs, the people, and her. Do that a few times before ever walking in to the park with her. Let the other dogs come up to the fence to sniff at her. Watch how she reacts. Let the other dogs come up to the fence in their pack, barking and making all kinds of noises. Watch how she reacts.
Learn dog body language right now, before you take her anywhere on her first visits after full vaccinations. Those lessons in dog body language will save you a lot of problems. Most people never take the time to learn dog body language, and then wonder why something happened, "out of nowhere". There are always warning signs. Always.
The reason you want to do this is because it only takes ONE bad incident, and that incident could be as simple as a dog scaring the garbage out of your pup, to cause serious behavioral issues towards other dogs. (Ask me how I know.)
So for the crate: Great job that she went in and didn't raise a huge fuss...sounds like you're on the right track. You need to let her outside every few hours, she cannot physically hold it for hours on end, she's a puppy. No need for a water dish in there, she's not going to be in there for more than a couple to a few hours at a time.
Always remember, especially with high intelligent breeds like this: YOU make the decisions, not the dog.
Please get that DVD. I highly, highly, highly recommend it. The angst that you will save yourself and your dog will be worth the money spent. It's one of the best DVDs out there for how to handle high energy, highly intelligent dogs. Leerburg is my go to web site when I have a problem, and he's been right every single time.
Also, when you do take your dog to your parents, because they have a huge yard, take the opportunity to start setting up little games for her. You can start off with a simple toy (or whatever she goes ape spit over) and a box. Put the box on the ground. Show her the toy. Walk over to the box and place the toy underneath it. Tell her to get the toy. She probably won't even know what "get it" or "get the toy" or "find" or whatever word you want to use actually means, just pick something, use it, and wait for her to find the dang toy. When she gets good at that, use two boxes. Toy goes under one. Make her find it. Add more boxes. Place them all over the yard. Get to the point that you don't show her which box you put the toy under....very inexpensive, but extremely stimulating for her, and will tire her out.
Hi, thank you for all of the thoughtful replies. I plan on reading these before I sleep tonight and I apologize for not responding to each post as I am very tired with the new puppy.
I will not be using a bark collar and I don't even know what that is. I let the puppy sleep in my room in a kennel that I do not lock. I won't be locking her in a crate for more than 3 hours at max only when I am not here.
During the day, she had the run of the apartment when my other dog was at my parents' house. My puppy basically eats, plays and then tires herself out and then goes to sleep. She pees and poops on the puppy pads but misses it by an inch or two so I am very thankful for that. She is a lovely girl and she tries to be submissive to my older dog but instead of staying away from my older dog which I commanded and my dog signaled by growling, she just kept charging back to my dog's area. I physically stopped her by holding her several times but she kept whining and then biting me and then barking. I gave her a 5 min time out alone in my bedroom but she started whining and charging the door freaking out my other dog. After the 5 min, I let her out but she again charged to my dog's area and then I gave her another 5 min time out in the bedroom where she whined (barked and she also howls!) and charged at the door again.
The puppy's area is much larger than my dog's sleeping area as my puppy has a large crate with a dog bed inside and there is also another huge dog bed (in the pic) and next to that is her puppy training pad area. So, it's been stressful for my other dog as my older dog does not go to the puppy's area and basically has only a few places to avoid the puppy (she does not go into the other room by herself as she wants to be in the same room with me and my puppy also wants to stay in the room where I am at). I saw a short Leerburg (like you guys recommended) video on youtube where he suggested that I leash the puppy indoors until she learns some manners. So, I leashed my dog to the crate where she thrashed about and kept biting the leash and it worked very well after she got tired. My dog was a little freaked out when the puppy was thrashing about but now is comfortable knowing she won't come into her area. However, I feel really bad for the puppy. Is this the right thing to do? It's finally peaceful and it hasn't be like that for 2 hours since my older dog came back to the apartment. I just don't want the puppy to feel punished or feel unloved as my other dog gets more privileges than her. I put all of her toys within her reach but hasn't played with them since I tied her.
Hi, thank you for all of the thoughtful replies. I plan on reading these before I sleep tonight and I apologize for not responding to each post as I am very tired with the new puppy.
I will not be using a bark collar and I don't even know what that is. I let the puppy sleep in my room in a kennel that I do not lock. I won't be locking her in a crate for more than 3 hours at max only when I am not here.
During the day, she had the run of the apartment when my other dog was at my parents' house. My puppy basically eats, plays and then tires herself out and then goes to sleep. She pees and poops on the puppy pads but misses it by an inch or two so I am very thankful for that. She is a lovely girl and she tries to be submissive to my older dog but instead of staying away from my older dog which I commanded and my dog signaled by growling, she just kept charging back to my dog's area. I physically stopped her by holding her several times but she kept whining and then biting me and then barking. I gave her a 5 min time out alone in my bedroom but she started whining and charging the door freaking out my other dog. After the 5 min, I let her out but she again charged to my dog's area and then I gave her another 5 min time out in the bedroom where she whined (barked and she also howls!) and charged at the door again.
The puppy's area is much larger than my dog's sleeping area as my puppy has a large crate with a dog bed inside and there is also another huge dog bed (in the pic) and next to that is her puppy training pad area. So, it's been stressful for my other dog as my older dog does not go to the puppy's area and basically has only a few places to avoid the puppy (she does not go into the other room by herself as she wants to be in the same room with me and my puppy also wants to stay in the room where I am at). I saw a short Leerburg (like you guys recommended) video on youtube where he suggested that I leash the puppy indoors until she learns some manners. So, I leashed my dog to the crate where she thrashed about and kept biting the leash and it worked very well after she got tired. My dog was a little freaked out when the puppy was thrashing about but now is comfortable knowing she won't come into her area. However, I feel really bad for the puppy. Is this the right thing to do? It's finally peaceful and it hasn't be like that for 2 hours since my older dog came back to the apartment. I just don't want the puppy to feel punished or feel unloved as my other dog gets more privileges than her. I put all of her toys within her reach but hasn't played with them since I tied her.
Allow the older dog to teach the new kid some of the rules. Dogs do it far better than humans. Older dogs are going to growl. Do you trust your older dog? One of the hardest things I had to learn when mine were pups was not jumping in every time one of the older dogs they got to know where we used to live, (6 of them total - the older ones that is), would growl at them. One of the older dog's owners told me to just relax, and let it happen. Not a single one of those older dogs hurt my pups. They simply taught them the boundaries. Your pup is smart, your pup will learn.
Edit: To make you feel better about allowing your older dog to teach the new kid the ropes, and to back up what I just claimed, I found you some links.
Puppies before the age of 4 months may not be familiar with subtle body gestures from adult dogs that are signals they have had enough. Well-socialized adult dogs with good temperaments can set limits with puppies with a growl, bark or snarl. This behavior should be allowed to happen.
None of my dogs has ever welcomed a puppy with open arms (paws)
All of the dogs growl and snap and move away from the pup
NONE of the dogs has ever hurt a puppy
These observations are pretty normal...
When a pup arrives at a new home without another pup in sight to play with, naturally he picks the next closest thing: the adult dog. The pup does what he has done with his littermates—launches on the head of the sleeping adult dog...And the snarl that comes from the adult dog is wholly unexpected and startling to the new puppy. Occasionally, if the snarl isn't enough to deter the puppy from re-launching himself onto the sleepy dog, a full display of teeth along with the most guttural growl you've ever heard will convince the pup to cease and desist...
...According to our adult dogs, puppies have really poor social skills and have lots to learn. Our adult dogs have been valuable teachers to the puppies we have hosted, and we are grateful to them. The first lesson the puppy learns is where the lines are drawn. There are a lot of DON'Ts that our dogs teach the puppy:
An adult dog communicates to a puppy
that he has crossed the line.
DON'T jump on my head.
DON'T steal the toy I'm playing with
DON'T put your face in my bowl when I'm eating.
DON'T walk on me.
DON'T bite my ears or my tail.
DON'T sit on me.
DON'T bark in my face.
DON'T come any closer.
As long as the adult dogs' behavior is appropriate, everything is fine, and the pup begins to learn the new rules of this new house. After about three weeks, some play between the adults and the puppy begins...
Don't humanize your dog. It's very easy to do, especially when they are little and cute. Remember - manipulation is now in your daily vocabulary. Better thing to do would be to leash the pup to you. Fix the leash in to a belt loop, and just go about your business. When you get up from the couch, she goes with you. When you walk from room to room, she goes with you. This helps build the bond, as well. Also helps you recognize immediately when she's needing to go to the bathroom, and since she's already leashed, you simply open the door and head out to her spot to use the bathroom. (Don't forget the parade when she finishes.)
As for the biting and nipping: Put some vinegar on your hands. Let her get a taste of that the next time she wants to nip and bite.
Last edited by Three Wolves In Snow; 02-01-2016 at 10:13 PM..
As I sit here dealing with my own little brat, I thought I should tell you that it will never end. These types of dogs, if you give them even a smidgen of a millimeter of room, they are going to run, fast, with it. It's never going to end.
How do you deal with it when it's unending? I'm already exhausted... I decided that she should sleep in her carrier in my bedroom yesterday but she wanted to sleep on my lounge chair. She spilled cranberry juice all over my chair and some on my laptop during her timeout so I had to use a cleaner to try to get the stains out so I didn't want her breathing in those fumes. I took the chair out and picked her up and put her in the crate but she kept coming out and she was pooped. She kept trying to lie down somewhere else the few times I gave her the benefit of the doubt. It took 10 minutes or so of picking her up and putting her in a crate and her coming back out and I was thinking this was never going to end. She is 6 lbs now and it was torture for me so I don't know how it's going to be once she gets bigger. I thought that a mini shepherd would have a lot less energy but I know this is my mistake . Also for a dog who loves praise, she sure is stubborn. I'm glad that I got the advice to be consistent and not to give in because I really wanted to give up and let her sleep wherever because I was so tired.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Three Wolves In Snow
Whatever you have in hand better be far more interesting than that carpet, so choose wisely.
I can redirect her during the day but she wakes up at like 5 in the morning and was chewing on the carpet so I had to cover the carpet with towels hoping that is good enough and then passed out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Three Wolves In Snow
Just thought of this: How about a pen? Can you fit one somewhere in your apartment? Doesn't have to be huge, but maybe she'll take to a pen better right now than the crate.
I bought a pen but I ended up returning it because the crate I bought is pretty big and the pen was big too and I feel like she is going to scream in the pen too as she whines when she is locked in a room or her crate when I'm present.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Three Wolves In Snow
On one hand, it's kind of funny, but there is no. way. I'm letting her know that.
I'm glad that you can have a sense of humor as I have yet to find mine with her behavior. One hand I feel really bad because she is so cute but I know that I need to train her...
How do you deal with it when it's unending? I'm already exhausted... I decided that she should sleep in her carrier in my bedroom yesterday but she wanted to sleep on my lounge chair. She spilled cranberry juice all over my chair and some on my laptop during her timeout so I had to use a cleaner to try to get the stains out so I didn't want her breathing in those fumes. I took the chair out and picked her up and put her in the crate but she kept coming out and she was pooped. She kept trying to lie down somewhere else the few times I gave her the benefit of the doubt. It took 10 minutes or so of picking her up and putting her in a crate and her coming back out and I was thinking this was never going to end. She is 6 lbs now and it was torture for me so I don't know how it's going to be once she gets bigger. I thought that a mini shepherd would have a lot less energy but I know this is my mistake . Also for a dog who loves praise, she sure is stubborn. I'm glad that I got the advice to be consistent and not to give in because I really wanted to give up and let her sleep wherever because I was so tired.
I can redirect her during the day but she wakes up at like 5 in the morning and was chewing on the carpet so I had to cover the carpet with towels hoping that is good enough and then passed out.
I bought a pen but I ended up returning it because the crate I bought is pretty big and the pen was big too and I feel like she is going to scream in the pen too as she whines when she is locked in a room or her crate when I'm present.
I'm glad that you can have a sense of humor as I have yet to find mine with her behavior. One hand I feel really bad because she is so cute but I know that I need to train her...
I know it's exhausting. I will be very upfront, I don't care who thinks less of me for it:
There were many, many, many days that I thought: Why did I save them? Why did I adopt them? Why am I still doing this? I could just call up a rescue and have someone else take them. I'm so tired. I don't even like you, dogs. You exhaust me. You don't listen. You constantly test me. I feed you, I provide for you, I've bought you everything a dog could want, I exercise you even when I'm tired, I let you out to see your dog friends, even when I'm tired. I take you out for hikes when I'd rather sit at home and do nothing, because I'm so tired. WHY ARE YOU MAKING MY LIFE SO HARD?!?!!? Why am I still doing this? This isn't even worth it! You do not "lower my blood pressure" like pets are supposed to do, you're going to give me fricken heart failure. You're not good for my health.
And on and on.
Yes, I know it's exhausting. I can't count how many times I wanted to throw in the towel. It's going to be hard for awhile...but guess what?
I promise you that this will happen:
One day, it's all going to click for your dog. As long as you stay calm, assertive, fair, and a leader..as long as you gain that dog's trust and respect, I PROMISE you that it's going to click for her, and you're going to look at her and see her for the amazing being that she is. You'll marvel at her intelligence, you'll smile at her energy, you'll see that mind working every moment just by looking in her eyes, you can actually see it working. And she's going to be "that dog" like Dashdog talked about earlier. I promise you that there are rewards for this. I promise you that the hard work is going to pay off.
And the biggest reward of all is that you're going to learn a lot about dogs, yourself, and life all because of her.
I promise it does get better. These first months are the hardest. Get that DVD if you haven't already, spare yourself some agony from learning things the hard way. Build that foundation right now, right from the start. You will save yourself so. much. trouble. later on if you build it right now. No matter how exhausting it is, keep at it. She's going to keep testing you, and testing you, and testing you...but I promise you, it will be worth it.
If you get to a point where you think you just can't take it one more minute, take her to the parents' house and take some time to yourself. Recharge.
They are exhausting. These herding breeds are the most exhausting types of dogs ever. EVER. The payoff, though, is so worth it.
I didn't have humor in the beginning. I didn't think anything was funny. I was so tired, I was frustrated, and some times the only thing that kept me going was guilt. (Mine were thrown from a car to die in traffic when they were 3 months old.)
I can find humor now, because I'm getting the rewards. I can't even imagine how boring life would be without my girl, (she's the one that causes me all the drama, the boy only hates other dogs, other than that, he doesn't do anything wrong).
I don't know how to fully explain it, you just get to a point where you both have reached an understanding of each other. She knows that I'm not going to run out the door with her dinner because she barked, and i know that she's still going to be a PITA princess punk and bark at the door telling me to hurry up.
I know that she's got to have the last word every single time. My sister finds this greatly amusing and laughs and laughs every time it happens, I don't let my dog know that I find any of it amusing. I don't find it laugh out loud funny, but I do find the humor in the fact that my punk dog has to throw in that last bark when we are talking. SUCH a punk.
I know that when I'm telling her stop doing something, she's going to jut her bottom teeth out and "smile" at me, thinking she's hilarious. She looks ridiculous when she does it, but I wouldn't want it to end, either.
I could do with less of the drama when she sees other people, but then, what would I write about? My boring dog who sits around doing nothing all day? I'll take this little hellion over one who just sits around.
You'll find the humor eventually. One way or another, you're going to laugh. You'll either laugh because she's driven you insane, or you'll laugh because you will, some day, see just how funny they are even with all of their antics.
To clarify my statement that concerned you: It's not going to be non stop like it is right now, I'm simply saying that they will test you until the day they die. I don't mean all the time, every day, I mean they will, periodically, choose to test you again. They'll never stop looking for a way to get to do what they want, but I didn't mean the way that they test you when you're starting out. If you build up correctly right now, they will eventually relent...but do not let your guard down, is what I meant. Because they are going to pick something and they are going to see if you're serious. Example: Every so often, the girl loves to test me on walks. "How far forward of her can I go this time...heh heh heh." If I let that go even once, we get to start all over with training to walk by my side. That's all I meant by that statement.
Last edited by Three Wolves In Snow; 02-02-2016 at 01:49 PM..
Three Wolves has been giving you solid information.
I would highly suggest that you take the following Fenzi Dog Sports online class. This class focuses on foundation exercises that work on impulse control, focus, and learning theory; while this class is geared toward raising a performance dog, these are all absolutely critical life skills for a high energy smart puppy. The good news is that because the class has been "retired" that it is only $50 plus a book; because it is a retired class though there won't be any support available, but you can watch the videos and read the lessons as many times as you need (and course materials are available to you for a full year). Before you dismiss using an online class, this class will give you the basic skills that you need NOW to begin training your pup. As well, working through these exercises and lessons with your pup will give your pup the mental exercise she desperately needs. It will also give you an idea of what it is like to work with a world-class trainer who understands high energy dogs.
As for the biting and nipping: Put some vinegar on your hands. Let her get a taste of that the next time she wants to nip and bite.
Thank you for your advice. It is really spot on and it's so helpful as I am struggling and it's only my 4th day with her. I will order that DVD and I don't know if I could trust my dog to teach the puppy as she has never played with other dogs before. She was sick as a puppy and was almost attacked by another dog as well (like yours) so I never really allowed her to be around other dogs as I am very overprotective of her. I am not going to coddle this puppy and it seems like she does not need it whatsoever. Both of the them were in the backyard tonight and the puppy was running around crazy and my other dog was a leash. My dog was getting worked up and was looking at her like she looks at bunnies and kept trying to lunge at her. I did catch the puppy and showed my dog that it was her and not a random bunny and she just sniffed at the puppy and walked away.
I tried taking the puppy to my parents' house but my mom begged me to take the puppy home and to leave my other dog there. Everyone does think she is so cute though.
Anyhow, that vinegar trick completely worked. My fingers are swollen from her teeth marks but tonight she bit my hand and then stopped like "what the" and sniffed my hand and walked away.
Also, I hope they caught the jerk who threw your dogs out. You must be a very patient person to deal with two of these guys.
She does need agility classes. She gets into every crevice and walked on my big dog's car ramp without fear or prompting; just walked up in a matter of fact manner. Is there a substitute to agility? I don't know anything about it and I rather go to the park and walk trails.
My puppy keeps waking up 3 hours before I am suppose to wake up. Anything I can do about this? I am so mean but I considered waking her up so that she will be massively tired when I go to sleep.
Thank you for your advice. It is really spot on and it's so helpful as I am struggling and it's only my 4th day with her. I will order that DVD and I don't know if I could trust my dog to teach the puppy as she has never played with other dogs before. She was sick as a puppy and was almost attacked by another dog as well (like yours) so I never really allowed her to be around other dogs as I am very overprotective of her. I am not going to coddle this puppy and it seems like she does not need it whatsoever. Both of the them were in the backyard tonight and the puppy was running around crazy and my other dog was a leash. My dog was getting worked up and was looking at her like she looks at bunnies and kept trying to lunge at her. I did catch the puppy and showed my dog that it was her and not a random bunny and she just sniffed at the puppy and walked away.
This is long, but I'm trying to be thorough.
If they are going to live together, they are going to have to interact with each other. When she gets her vaccinations, take them both for a walk at the same time. (That is, after you have taught her how to walk on a leash...you may get lucky, it might be easy...let's hope for that. Nonetheless, you should prep yourself for some resistance there, too.)
Before I forget: I wanted to add that you are doing it so right with your other dog. You have mentioned spending time with your other dog alone. That is exactly the right thing to do. You now have two dogs, and you will eventually be taking them out together to do things, but each one of them will also need their alone time with you...again, it's that bonding thing. I wanted to let you know that some of these things are coming naturally to you, so keep that in mind when you start to get frustrated. You do instinctively know some very important things to be doing with your dogs.
If you aren't sure about your older dog with the pup right now, that's fine. You might want to allow them some more time together in the back yard when you can. I understand why you have the older dog on the leash, since you are unsure, but also keep in mind that the leash completely changes the dynamics. Right now your pup is small and a complete dork when it comes to understanding some behaviors that dogs have, but as she gets older, you're going to have to one day get rid of the leash on your older dog. The more you can have them around each other without stress, without anxiety, the better. Keep that leash loose, meaning don't grab on to it tight when you've got the two of them together as it only adds tension. Relax. Remember that dogs can feel your energy - they really can. And they react to it. Keep calm and relaxed.
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Anyhow, that vinegar trick completely worked. My fingers are swollen from her teeth marks but tonight she bit my hand and then stopped like "what the" and sniffed my hand and walked away.
This is one of those "wins" I was talking about. I gloated for you when I read it. I may have cackled. An engraved trophy has been earned.
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Also, I hope they caught the jerk who threw your dogs out. You must be a very patient person to deal with two of these guys.
I had two choices: Learn patience, or be a quitter. No matter how frustrated I got, I could not live with myself if I quit on them.
Anyway, you learn ways to deal with it all, you learn patience, more than you've ever had, and you learn to outsmart, and you also learn to take your triumphs and not care what anyone thinks of you taking your triumphs.
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She does need agility classes. She gets into every crevice and walked on my big dog's car ramp without fear or prompting; just walked up in a matter of fact manner. Is there a substitute to agility? I don't know anything about it and I rather go to the park and walk trails.
You could also try fly ball. The reason for agility and flyball and things like that is not just for competition, not just because these dogs are smart, it's because it tires them out. As stated before, these dogs need mental stimulation. A walk down a trail is fine, but it doesn't do much for their mental stimulation. You can do flyball, you can do frisbee, you can make an agility course out of anything you see along your walks...as long as they are safe, of course.
Have you ever seen those posts...usually by the water, not sure why, but there always seem to be posts that are about waist high, they are all in a row, usually made of metal...there's anywhere from 5-10 of them...you'll see them in any city. I use those when I see them; train the dog to weave in and out of them. Keeps her mind stimulated - it's a new challenge for her.
Walks on a trail are not a challenge for them. She needs challenges, tasks, games, jobs that make her mind work. Someone else mentioned this and it's true: Yes they need to walk and run, but what they need more is mental stimulation. You do not want a bored high energy, high intelligent dog. You want a worn out intelligent dog...and that comes from stimulating her mind more than going for long walks. Agility is great because it exercises their mind and their body at the same time. Flyball is good, too, but agility has a lot of obstacles that need to be overcome, and those obstacles can be easily rearranged to keep things interesting for her.
You can always buy a little agility kit off of Amazon as a starter, see how the dog reacts to it. It's certainly not "show" grade material, it's for the backyard, but who cares, it's still going to get her mind working, and that's what you want. Not only that, going for a long walk may tire you out, but the chances of tiring her out with mere exercise is slim to none. You go on a 10 mile hike, you're exhausted. She can go another 10 miles, no problem. You will be worn out far faster than she ever will. Mental stimulation is what the focus should be on. YES, of course exercise her, but focus more of your time on mentally stimulating her...you'll watch this dog blossom right before your eyes.
Here, this is something simple to do with a box. Free, and will get you started on keeping your dog stimulated...plus she's learning without knowing she's learning:
Yesterday I talked about boxes in the backyard with a toy or treat under it. You can do the same thing in your house with cups. Start with one cup, show the dog the treat, put the treat under the cup, let the dog see you do it. Allow the dog to get the treat. As she gets it, add another cup. As she gets that figured out, add another cup. Hide the cup and tell her to find it. Put cups all over your living room floor, make her find the one with the treat/toy, etc. Get creative.
You can even do that with your hands. Show her the treat in your hand, close both hands, put them out in front of you and make her paw the correct hand for the treat. Grab another treat, do the same, repeat, repeat, repeat. When she gets really good at it, take a treat, put your hands behind your back, switch the treat from hand to hand, close the hands, bring them back out in front of you, make her paw the hand that has the treat in it. If she gets it wrong, put your hands behind your back and shuffle the treat again.
When she's getting good at these types of games, you can use them at dinner time. Hide pieces of her dinner in these cups, boxes, or your hands. She will be playing games to get to her dinner.
Teach her words. This one will take time and patience, but you've got the right dog breed for it. Taking a cue from Dashdog's story: Get a toy box or a box, put all the dog stuff in it, and some other things you don't mind her putting in her mouth. Slowly teach her the name of the objects. Do one at a time, not 10 in a day. So if you have a stuffed monkey, you teach her the word "monkey" (keep in mind that dogs are good up to 2-3 syllables only so don't get complicated with the names of things). Put the monkey in the box, tell her to get the monkey, reward her greatly when she does. When she has that monkey down, teach her another toy name. Once she's learned it, put that toy in the box with the monkey. Say you had a stuffed monkey and a ball. Tell her to get the ball. When she gets the ball, reward her greatly. Tell her to get the monkey, reward her. Do this for several toys, and eventually have her bring them to you one by one.
There's all kinds of games that you can play with your dog right now. None of them have to be expensive. I still agree that it's a good idea to get your dog in to something that will both exercise her physically and mentally, so look in to agility, flyball, frisbee, or anything else that you can find. You don't have to compete, you don't have to show the dog, just do it for fun. You want a strong bond? Those are going to give you and your dog an extremely strong bond. And she's going to be exhausted. An exhausted herding dog is a good herding dog.
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My puppy keeps waking up 3 hours before I am suppose to wake up. Anything I can do about this? I am so mean but I considered waking her up so that she will be massively tired when I go to sleep.
It could be any number of reasons that she's waking up early, so all I can do is offer some suggestions, and which ever ones fit you, use those.
Last bathroom break of the night, make it as late as possible before bed time. If you have to wake her up to do it, then wake her up to do it. If she fell asleep at 7pm, and you don't go to bed until 10 pm, this is part of the reason why she's waking you up earlier. She's had more rest. So if you sleep at 10pm, then wake her up and have her go out to the bathroom before you go to bed. Better yet, try having her awake at least an hour before you go to bed. Spend that time playing. Really wear out her mind.
Don't feed the dog too late at night. Feed earlier in the evening. Make sure that her last feeding and her last bathroom break have several hours in between. So if you feed at 6pm, take her out 20-30 minutes later, let her do her thing, then right before bed, take her out again. Also, the better the diet, the less likely the need to go out in the middle of the night. Don't let her lap up all the water right before bed, either.
Do you feed her when you wake up? If you do, don't feed her right when you wake up. Take her out to do her business, then take your shower, brush your teeth, make your bed, get dressed, make your breakfast, THEN make her breakfast. If she thinks she's going to get fed as soon as you get out of bed...guess what?
If she sleeps in her crate, door open or not, put a blanket or sheet over the crate at night time. Make sure it's one that you don't care about anymore just in case she decides to be a chewer.
Set the alarm to the time she's waking you up. If you get up at 6am, and she's waking you up at 3am, set the alarm for 3am. Let it go off, don't get up. Turn off the alarm, wait 5 minutes. Then get up. Do this for 3-4 days.
On the 4th or 5th day, set the alarm for 3:05am. The alarm goes off, turn it off, wait 5 minutes. Then get up. Do that for 3-4 days.
Then, set the alarm for 3:10am. The alarm goes off, turn it off, wait 5 minutes. Then get up, etc, etc, etc. (This is if any of the other aforementioned things are not the reason for her waking you up so early.)
Yes, it takes awhile, but you are training her to sleep in, and the beauty is, she won't know that you're doing it to her. If you experience a set back, just keep at it, maybe go back 5 minutes. Eventually, she's going to be sleeping in until you are up. BUT, again, she's a pup, she has a small bladder, and puppyhood means a lot of hours of missed sleep.
Try some of the above to help reduce that loss of sleep, it will be beneficial to you and the pup.
Last edited by Three Wolves In Snow; 02-03-2016 at 12:34 AM..
Three Wolves post What began"I know it's exhausting. I will be very upfront, I don't care who thinks less of me for it:
There were many, many, many days that I thought: Why did I save them? Why did I adopt them? Why am I still doing this? I could just call up a rescue and have someone else take them. I'm so tired. I don't even like you, dogs. You exhaust me. You don't listen. You constantly test me. I feed you, I provide for you, I've bought you everything a dog could want, I exercise you even when I'm tired, I let you out to see your dog friends, even when I'm tired. I take you out for hikes when I'd rather sit at home and do nothing, because I'm so tired. WHY ARE YOU MAKING MY LIFE SO HARD?!?!!? Why am I still doing this? This isn't even worth it! You do not "lower my blood pressure" like pets are supposed to do, you're going to give me fricken heart failure. You're not good for my health. And on and on."
is so right on when you find yourself with a very intelligent high energy puppy, especially if you are also a working person with a full time job outside the house. That is why I advise people to be honest with themselves when they are getting this type of puppy as it is a 2nd job and it is not for just a couple weeks. Even as adults these dogs can be very demanding and you give up much of your own life for them as it does not matter how tired you are and how you want to come home from work and just relax as they are ready to go and they need to go. I am not saying all border collies cattle dogs, kelpies or aussies are this bad as I have friends with such breeds that have very laid back, calm lower energy dogs . So this is life with the ones that are very intelligent and high non stop energy.
You find a new life that incorporates that dog into it so rather then hanging out with old Pre Jazz days friends I made new friends with the local agility/flyball club and with people that were active with dogs as walking with friends with dogs or hanging out with them and their dogs makes it less of a chore or job then exercising the dog alone. After agility practice the club would sometimes go out to eat so those became my" nights out". We all had tired dogs in our cars so meals were a bit rushed but still fun or we brought food and drinks and partied at the park after practice when all the equipment was put away. We got together on holidays and used the sports field of a private school that allowed us too and set up a course and spent the day running our dogs and eating the pot luck meal. It became my life.
The dog I had before Jazz was 4 when I got her and was an english cocker spaniel that I found on death row at the shelter and while she had the zoomies and loved the beach she was not even half the energy of Jazz so I could come home play ball with her or take a short beach walk and she was happy so I still had a life with coworkers and other friends. Enter Jazz puppy and when I was not at work I was working with her. Those first 2 years were the roughest and my friends that did not have dogs just did not understand why I could not go out to happy hour, dinner and a movie or party. I was often at a dog class of some sort be it obedience or agility or games,did not have time for movies!
When Jazz was 2 and I added Dash a 1yr old border collie springer spaniel mix it helped as they bonded fast and loved to play together. When I was tired we could go up to the huge park that allows off leash dogs or the leash free beach and the two of them ran and played with each other and the group of dogs we met there every afternoon. Then I would throw the ball and do drills with Jazz for an hour while Dash wandered around or laid in the shade Dash was high energy but easier going then Jazz and submissive to her as she was a control freak so he was the perfect dog to have with her. Dash also would tire out unlike her.
Doing agility with them was a life saver and they knew which evenings we did agility and the one time I was late getting home they rushed out the door when I opened it . ( which they never did as they knew they had to wait until I told them to go out) They ran to my car and sat looking at the door barking " lets go we are late,get your butt in gear and go". I had a person tell me he thought it was wrong to force a dog to learn agility and run it...force? my butt as my dogs LOVED it.
One of my saddest moments with them was when they were older and Dash was nearing the end of his battle with nasal cancer and Jazz had had a nerve sheath sarcoma( cancer) removed from the front of her chest. We had stopped doing agility due to the cancers and their age and they had not even seen it for a good 10 months. We stopped at agility practice one night just to say hello and they whined and fussed and kept looking at me like come on we can do this so I gave in and each dog got to run the agility course one last time. It was bitter sweet as I knew it was the last time for them and I knew how much they loved doing it again. We had great times with the club and our favorites were doing demos for retirement homes or a home for people with cerebral palsy as not only did they get to run agility but they got to visit with the people and my two loved that and loved having a crowd that cheered for them.
Jazz was never an easy dog but she is the one that taught me all about dogs and about dog training. She had a special bond with me and when she and I played at the park and I would add drills to that play we often drew a crowd that would stop to watch her as seeing a dog that obeys as well as she did yet still seem to be having a blast and is working as a team with the owner is worth watching. While I did not feel this when she was a puppy as she became and adult I felt blessed that I had been given thus trusted with such a beautiful special dog. Life is easier with an easy dog but it is these more difficult dogs that teach you and end up buried so deep in your heart that no other dog can touch that spot.
Jazz had the title of "The Queen" for a good reason.I love the dogs I have now Dazzle and Chaos they are great dogs and easy dogs which fit into my current life but I know I will never feel about them the way I did about Jazz and I will forever miss that crazy smart non stop control freak. Of course she is probably waiting for me and will give me hell for taking so long when I get to heaven as yes she also had to have the last say in everything so typical of these dogs
If you aren't sure about your older dog with the pup right now, that's fine. You might want to allow them some more time together in the back yard when you can.
My older dog refuses to spend any time with the puppy and just hates being in the same space as her. The puppy really wants to be near my dog and won't stop trying to get to her. She jumped from the front seat of the car to the back startling me and my other dog. Now, I have to make sure she is tied up in the front seat. I know that she should be anyways for her safety but I am waiting to purchase a harness until she fully grows.
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Originally Posted by Three Wolves In Snow
This is one of those "wins" I was talking about. I gloated for you when I read it. I may have cackled. An engraved trophy has been earned.
I was very satisfied too but she still keeps nipping at me to the point where I had a bottle of vinegar next to my bed. She is relentless and does not give up.
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Originally Posted by Three Wolves In Snow
I had two choices: Learn patience, or be a quitter. No matter how frustrated I got, I could not live with myself if I quit on them.
Anyway, you learn ways to deal with it all, you learn patience, more than you've ever had, and you learn to outsmart, and you also learn to take your triumphs and not care what anyone thinks of you taking your triumphs.
I am having a hard time being patient and I keep wavering. During the day, it's fine if my other dog is at my parents' place but at night, she won't stop barking if she is placed in her kennel. I know that I wasn't suppose to give up so I even had to take the carrier into my car until she stops her barking and whining. She eventually stopped but once I brought her back in, she started barking again and I just yelled at her even though I know I shouldn't. The next night I took her to my parents' place so that I didn't have to deal with her and apparently she was a good girl and had no problems whatsoever making me seem like a liar.
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Originally Posted by Three Wolves In Snow
You could also try fly ball. The reason for agility and flyball and things like that is not just for competition, not just because these dogs are smart, it's because it tires them out. As stated before, these dogs need mental stimulation. A walk down a trail is fine, but it doesn't do much for their mental stimulation. You can do flyball, you can do frisbee, you can make an agility course out of anything you see along your walks...as long as they are safe, of course.
Frisbee and fly ball all sound good. I can't wait until she is vaccinated. With my other dog, I wanted to cherish her puppyhood because I knew it was all just going to pass by. With my puppy, I can't wait until she grows up. Lol.
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Originally Posted by Three Wolves In Snow
Yesterday I talked about boxes in the backyard with a toy or treat under it. You can do the same thing in your house with cups. Start with one cup, show the dog the treat, put the treat under the cup, let the dog see you do it. Allow the dog to get the treat. As she gets it, add another cup. As she gets that figured out, add another cup. Hide the cup and tell her to find it. Put cups all over your living room floor, make her find the one with the treat/toy, etc. Get creative.
Playing games and teaching her are great ideas when she gets a little older. She has a very short attention span and will probably knock them out instead of using her brain. I can't use my hands with her yet as she is still nipping at me and trying to bite me every chance she gets. I wish that they made vinegar scented lotion as the vinegar evaporates too quickly. Every time she nips I stop all activity and say ouch and then just walk away from her. She still doesn't get ...
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Originally Posted by Three Wolves In Snow
It could be any number of reasons that she's waking up early, so all I can do is offer some suggestions, and which ever ones fit you, use those.
I do my the last break at night and we sleep at like 11-12 pm at the same time. I do feed her late because I don't want her to be too hungry when sleeping and I did feed her as soon as she woke up. I stopped because I just couldn't wake up when she does.
Having her awake at least an hour sounds like a good idea if there is no bad effect on a puppy. I don't know if it is true but my mom said that it will make the puppy aggressive if I don't let her sleep when she wants to.
I will cover her kennel with a blanket as my blinds do let in a lot of light. I will need to put in more effort with this but I am just so weak when it comes to sleep and I am a completely different person awake and semi sleeping so it's just tough.
Again, I am so thankful for your posts. I have learned a lot and you are just on point.
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Originally Posted by Dashdog
Jazz had the title of "The Queen" for a good reason.I love the dogs I have now Dazzle and Chaos they are great dogs and easy dogs which fit into my current life but I know I will never feel about them the way I did about Jazz and I will forever miss that crazy smart non stop control freak. Of course she is probably waiting for me and will give me hell for taking so long when I get to heaven as yes she also had to have the last say in everything so typical of these dogs
Thank you for sharing your story. I hope to have a special bond with the new puppy but I feel like how you felt about Jazz with my other dog. My other dog has been a "princess" since she was a puppy so there is no room for the puppy to become royalty status. Lol. In seriousness, I feel really guilty to my princess about causing her stress with the new puppy and I feel guilty to my new puppy for not giving her enough of my heart as that space is already taken by my current dog.
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Is there a substitute to agility? I don't know anything about it and I rather go to the park and walk trails. 
Dash was high energy but easier going then Jazz and submissive to her as she was a control freak so he was the perfect dog to have with her. Dash also would tire out unlike her. 
The next night I took her to my parents' place so that I didn't have to deal with her and apparently she was a good girl and had no problems whatsoever making me seem like a liar. 
