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Not certain how you would feel on the extra grooming needs, but an Old English Sheepdog pretty much nails it.
Wonderful with kids, people but I wouldn't want to mess with "their" humans with a sheepie around.
Totally Velcro, they will always be underfoot and follow you around.
Pretty smart but very stubborn. Its a negotiation with them.
Ours have been good with cats, but the cats were there when a puppy.
Males 70-80#male although they can go to 100ish. Our present is 103, as both lines are larger stature. There is no particular size standard.
Long lived 12 years not uncommon.
They are couch/bed hogs until they get to warm, then its onto the cooler floor.
Goofy, friendly, enthusiastic, pouty, stubborn and steadfastly loyal pretty much sums them up.
We generally trim down in Mayish for the summer and back to reasonable coat by the start of winter. 3-4 times a year for a pro grooming and we can do the rest.
This is going to be a long post so I will really appreciate anyone who reads the whole thing. Over the last ten years I've periodically researched dog breeds even though I wasn't ready to own another one. When I got my last dog we didn't have the internet as a resource. I'm finding that now it is a blessing and a curse. I have taken many quizzes to help select a breed of dog that is right for you. The answers are always so different and when I do further research on the best match I find things that are contrary to what I need in a dog so I'm primarily looking for personal recommendations.
My situation: I work from home most days and probably will be for the next few years at least so I feel that it's time for us to start thinking about getting a dog in the next 1 to 2 years. Ideally I'd go through the application process with a rescue or shelter and then wait for the right dog to be available. First I have to capture and fix a bunch of feral cats that come on my property this is going to be a big expense for this year so the new dog is going to come after the initial spay/ neuter and vaccination costs for these 20 or so cats. Still, I'd like to narrow down what breeds to start looking at.
I have owned dogs in the past. My mom likes dogs so we always had one and when I was in college I got my own dog- a poodle/ pomeranian mix. She was on the small side for me and couldn't keep up with my activity level much of the time but she was a perfect fit for my husband. She had a good long life but as many years have passed since she crossed over the bridge I realize I was a lazy pet owner. She only got training in basic commands and we let her rule the house. I know a lot more now than I did then because I've been researching in anticipation of getting the next dog for quite a few years.
I've been active in cat rescue and have taken a course in animal psychology- which just touched on training methods for dogs. When I get closer to actually getting a dog I will take a course in training but I will also utilize the training classes at petco. Optimally, if the dog takes to training, I'd get them to pass the good citizen course. I work with a behaviorist for one of my cats so if there are behavioral issues with the dog we are already prepared with a good behaviorist.
I live in an semi-urban area in a smallish single family home with a fenced in backyard (25x 30 ft only, fence is at least 6 ft high). Houses here are very close together. The area is pro-dog. There is a parade of dogs every morning. Most of them are small dogs but we do have a few people who've rescued pit bulls. They are very well trained dogs and are always leashed. My husband and I have no kids and we rarely have kids visiting. When we do, they are older kids.
We would be looking at shelters and breed specific rescues first and are completely open to getting a mutt but even the mutts listed on websites are describes as being a mix between certain breeds. I'm hoping to get an idea of which breed mixes to avoid and which ones might be a good fit.
I do realize every dog is an individual and a lot of the dog's personality is dependent on early socialization with other dogs, people and new experiences.
That said here is what is very important for our next dog:
cat-friendly- a lot of breeds that get recommended to me on the quizzes are not considered cat friendly even though I always check the answer that states the dog must get along with other pets. This is the most frustrating problem I'm having with the quizzes. We have three cats that are not scared of dogs. They are very attached to each other and I predict that they will want to play with the dog and also groom the dog. I want a dog that can be best buds with cats. This is extremely important to us.
Stranger friendly- we are looking for a dog that views each deserving human it meets as a member of the pack. We entertain on a weekly basis and want to take the dog with us when we go into town. I'm looking for a breed that is not known for being nervous around new people.
Dog friendly- a breed that's not known for being dog-aggressive. Our dog will have to have respect for other dogs so he can join in at dog parks and on the daily puppy parade of dog walkers around our house.
Not intimidated by noise and animation- we don't have a house full of yelling but we do listen to loud music sometimes and we have musical instruments. I'd rather have a dog that will sing along to the music than one who shivers and hides. Likewise my husband is jovial and loud and talks with his hands. Some dogs react nervously to his boisterousness others aren't bothered. Our dog would have to be able to be around an energetic person.
Couch potato who is also eager to exercise: I want a dog that enjoys exercise and going jogging (once it's bones have matured enough) or for two mile walks but can have lazy days with just shorter walks. Even though I am home most of the time our weekends will be busy so the dog will have to get by just by being walked on Saturdays. We might have some time on Sunday for ball throwing in the back yard for 20 minutes but it's not likely we will go jogging or walk all the way into town. Exercise requirement questions on the quizzes always give me trouble because I want a dog that can be athletic but doesn't need to always be working/ running in order to have mental balance. On quizzes I usually check the box for "couch potato" because I want our dog not to be suffering if it has a low activity weekend.
High affection- we want a velcro dog. The always at your side please rub my belly kind of dog.
Moderately important
grooming requirements- we know how to use clippers and can do basic bathing and grooming. We don't care about shedding, snoring, farting or drooling/ slobber but we would prefer a breed that only needs to go to a professional groomer a few times a year than one who needs to go every 6-8 weeks.
Size- My ideal dog is a big dog that thinks he's a lap dog but is too big to fit in a lap. My husband's ideal dog would be one light enough to be picked up and one small enough to be a genuine lap dog. We are each willing to budge on our ideal for the right dog. In general we'd consider dogs that are 15 lbs and up but probably not over 50-60 lbs. Afterall our house is small and the dog would need to fit into an enclosure in the back of our CRV for vet visits and trips.
Lifespan and health- we have experienced the heartbreak of losing animals. As shelter workers at a no-kill facility we experience loss too often with elderly cats so my husband and I both agree that we want a dog that has a longevity in the 12+ years category. Likewise, we want a breed that isn't riddled with health issues. I understand that working with a good breeder is better for getting a healthy animal but we will most likely rescue so we won't have prior testing and knowledge of pedigree to work off of. So, we want to rule out dogs that have more than their share of known health issues. I am less concerned about obesity related health problems since we will make fitness a priority for the dog as we do for the cats (yes they need daily exercise too!) but tendencies for bone problems like hip dysplasia or cardiac problems are a concern. We want to increase our chances of having the dog to be able to exercise with us until it gets old and lazy right as we are getting older and lazier.
Unimportant
Ease of housebreaking- we are patient and tolerant and accustomed to working with problem animals and will not be put off by a breed that takes longer than average to be housetrained.
Intelligence & trainability- we just want a great pet. I'd like to pursue more advanced training or at least get to the point where he or she would ignore distractions but if the right dog for us isn't blessed with smarts or a natural inclination to please we will work with what we are given and adapt training to suit the dog.
Shedding/ drooling- One of my favorite dogs was a Newfoundland that drooled excessively. Wearing sandals in the house and keeping toilet lids down is a fair price to pay for a great companion. Likewise shedding is no concern.
Appearance- We have zero preference and see beauty in every breed from the hairless to the hairiest.
Thank you to anyone who took the time to read this!!!
Oregonwoodsmoke gave you an informative and accurate synopsis along with good recommendarions. I agree with spaniels and gundogs as a great match for you but would also suggest the Standard Poodle as most people don't realize the SP is a gundog. I have a friend who breeds SPs and hunts her own SPs...they rock in the field. Poodles require more than average grooming but if you are at all handy you can learn to give your dog a puppy clip in between trips to the groomer.
There is a lot of infor- and misinformation online for sure. This website is accurate on it's dog breed descriptions. Hope you find it useful.
I have an elderly border collie, a Catahoula and a kelpie mix. They would tick all of your boxes, but I don't think that's typical of their breeds. I think since you are looking into rescues, you should go on petfinder.com and look for dogs that meet your requirements in your area.
Picking a breed based on characteristics is always iffy, imho. It also depends on the specific lines and the individual dog.
Let me give you a rundown of my "kids":
Female border collie, 16 yrs old: Shes aging gracefully and doesn't have much time left (kidney failure). A very sweet, kid-friendly dog who is the definition of a velcro dog. In her youth, she could go for hours quite happily, but was equally happy just snuggling on the couch. Smart as a whip. She did go through a period where she was nipping at people who jogged by, but that was because of a very bad experience. She's high-anxiety in many ways, but it's very manageable. She is MUCH lower-key than the typical border collie, and much more kid- and stranger-friendly. Largely indifferent to other dogs and cats.
Male Catahoula, 4 years old: Insanely energetic, with an off button. Was good with my elderly cat. Can go all day. Is rarely far from me and has never declined a snuggle. VERY protective of my home, but great meeting other dogs and people in public. Never met a human he didn't instantly love. Also VERY gentle with smaller children, and reads their cues. A bit bossy with me - we argue frequently. His lack of prey drive is not typical of his breed from what I understand, but I suspect that he is very good at differentiating between household animals and non-household animals. He took to herding almost immediately, yet rarely did more than make playful overtures to my cat.
Male kelpie, 1 year old: Also insanely energetic, with not much of an off button, unless snuggling. This dog is the ULTIMATE velcro dog. He loves nothing more than to be right up next to me. I have never seen him tired. He gets along with every dog he meets (can be rough when playing though, but very good-natured) and adores people. Very smart. And according to his foster mom, he LOVES cats. Mine died a while back, so we have yet to test this out. Extremely playful. Again, his easygoing nature is not typical of many herding breeds.
I'd say contact some good rescues and look for dogs around 8-12 months old that have been living in foster homes and exposed to a lot. Or do your research on petfinder.
My two boys were picked out for me by friends and were being fostered in nearby homes. My friends apparently know me quite well
I am partial to herding breeds, but with your honest and realistic (good for you!!) exercise requirements, I cannot honeslty recommend any, except....a corgi specifically a cardigan (rather than pembroke0). They are a little more sturdy than the Pembroke.
There are a couple who we know from rally who are enthusiastic about everything whether sitting on the couch or running a couple miles a day. They are polite with strangers though one of the ones we know is a downright goofball who likes all dogs and has never met a stranger. As someone with a breed that is notorious for being "reserved" I think that is only if they are not socialized well. I have two Shelties right now, and one has a natural inclination to be a bit shy, but she gets over it if we go out enough. The other is a social butterfly.
Many corgis like to velcro to their people. And if you get a puppy, or an older dog raised with cats, they can be trusted around the cats.
I am partial to herding breeds, but with your honest and realistic (good for you!!) exercise requirements, I cannot honeslty recommend any, except....a corgi specifically a cardigan (rather than pembroke0). They are a little more sturdy than the Pembroke.
There are a couple who we know from rally who are enthusiastic about everything whether sitting on the couch or running a couple miles a day. They are polite with strangers though one of the ones we know is a downright goofball who likes all dogs and has never met a stranger. As someone with a breed that is notorious for being "reserved" I think that is only if they are not socialized well. I have two Shelties right now, and one has a natural inclination to be a bit shy, but she gets over it if we go out enough. The other is a social butterfly.
Many corgis like to velcro to their people. And if you get a puppy, or an older dog raised with cats, they can be trusted around the cats.
Edited to add: I am pro-rescue. My border collies and most of my shelties have come from breed specific rescues. My other sheltie actual came from the pound. Because of my experience with herding dogs I am usually put on the short list for younger dogs. Which sounds great, but IME, most of the young dogs in rescue have behavior issues. These can usually be dealt with, and a wonderful dogs results. BUT I am actually going to suggest you consider buying a puppy (I will likely get flamed for this). You have very specific requirements (which is completely OK) but for a first dog in a while, who needs to check boxes for he and you to be happy, a puppy with well known lines from a reputable breeder is a good bet. Once you have one under your belt and you want to add to the fur family, rescue might be an ever better option, and you would have experience with your breed of choice.
My situation: I work from home most days and probably will be for the next few years at least so I feel that it's time for us to start thinking about getting a dog in the next 1 to 2 years. Ideally I'd go through the application process with a rescue or shelter and then wait for the right dog to be available.
There are lovely dogs in rescue; this is a wonderful option.
When I get closer to actually getting a dog I will take a course in training but I will also utilize the training classes at petco. Optimally, if the dog takes to training, I'd get them to pass the good citizen course.
I would suggest finding a trainer through either the APDT or CCPDT website search functions. Both of these groups are highly reputable; the Association of Professional Dog Trainers also has good information for dog owners, webinars, and a trainer search function. The Certification Council for Professional Dog Trainers provides testing and certification for trainers. Their requirements are stringent, and require an apprenticeship that includes hands-on training experience, as well as a solid comprehensive test. You have a far better chance of finding an experienced reputable trainer through one of these organizations than through Petco.
cat-friendly- this is going to be a management issue- give the cats lots of places to hide and/or get away from the dog, introduce slowly when the dog is tired after a good walk, keep dog on leash for short first meeting, let the cats tell you their comfort zone.
Stranger friendly- What does this mean to you? You need to be your dog's advocate in situations with other people- in other words you will need to protect him from people and children who may want to treat him in ways that are inappropriate, e.g. children may not run up and scream in his face or fling their arms around his neck, random people may not approach him without your permission, etc. Do you mean people who are invited into your house? Do you mean if you are walking and someone approaches you? Are you thinking of a dog you can take out in public to parks or public events? You will need to exercise judgment, not all dogs like all things and a dog who likes people in one situation may not like people in another situation.
Dog friendly- are you thinking dog-friendly within your house, or out and about, or going to dog parks (wouldn't advise by the way a generally bad idea); with a younger dog it is all about socialization, training, and management; with an older rescue and other dogs do multiple meet n greets on neutral territory, watch the body language- it is ok if they are ambivalent with each other- they may sniff and then ignore each other, manage them in the house so they are never alone together. Sometimes it takes time for two adult dogs to sort things out and come to terms with each other, and some dogs may never like each other, so it will be all about management.
Not intimidated by noise and animation- stay away from border collies who are motivated by activity and are often noise/sound/storm phobic; herding dogs in general probably won't be a good option for you due to their sensitivity to motion and desire to herd whatever is moving at any given point in time.
High affection- we want a velcro dog. Velcro dogs can have tendencies toward separation anxiety.
grooming requirements- get some clippers and learn how to do it yourself. Yes, your dog may end up with some funny looking cuts at first, but everything grows out
Intelligence & trainability- These are not necessarily inclusive or exclusive of each other. Personally I would stay away from the "smart" breeds- they "can" be more difficult to train as they "tend" to overthink the cue and/or out-think you. Seriously- I always feel sorry for people who say they want smart dogs because they don't know what they are in for. All dogs are trainable- just find a dog you click with.
You are going to need to prioritize which characteristics are most important. I suspect that when you meet the right dog, most everything will go straight out the window anyway.
If you are looking for a dog to take everywhere and to just love everyone and everything, then you might want to look into either a lab or a golden. Even then, you will need to be realistic in your expectations of what your dog is able to tolerate. From your list you are expecting a lot of this dog- it might not all be realistic or fair to your dog to expect such a wide range of tolerance.
Edited to add: I am pro-rescue. My border collies and most of my shelties have come from breed specific rescues. My other sheltie actual came from the pound. Because of my experience with herding dogs I am usually put on the short list for younger dogs. Which sounds great, but IME, most of the young dogs in rescue have behavior issues. These can usually be dealt with, and a wonderful dogs results. BUT I am actually going to suggest you consider buying a puppy (I will likely get flamed for this). You have very specific requirements (which is completely OK) but for a first dog in a while, who needs to check boxes for he and you to be happy, a puppy with well known lines from a reputable breeder is a good bet. Once you have one under your belt and you want to add to the fur family, rescue might be an ever better option, and you would have experience with your breed of choice.
I totally see where you're coming from, but I really don't think the OP's requirements are all that specific. The dog park I go to is full of dogs that would meet all of those requirements. I'm not opposed to buying a puppy from a breeder at all (though I'll probably only own rescues going forward), but I feel like a young dog that has been in an experienced foster home could be a good find. I think getting a dog right out of a shelter would be a mistake in this case. But the OP seems to really know her stuff and understand animal behavior.
A puppy can be iffy because really you don't know what you're going to get when they're very young. There can be a lot of variation in just one litter. And I know quite a few people who got their sport dog from a breeder after tons of research and careful selection, and ended up with an entirely different temperament than they were hoping for. Young puppies can be a real crapshoot, imho.
The rescue I have gotten my last two dogs from mostly does long-term fostering, so when you get a dog from them, their personality has been well-established and the foster home has exposed the dog to a lot and noted its reactions. I've gotten two dogs from them and there have been no surprises of note.
From what the OP said, I am thinking that herding dogs might not be the best choice for OP for multiple reasons including possible noise/storm sensitivity, tendency to be either soft or sharp so might either be shy or not as tolerant of people as the OP would like, herding instincts may make them poor choices to be out and around where there is a lot going on. Yes, many posters here have herding dogs but we, myself included, have often made significant adjustments to our lifestyle that the OP won't necessarily want to make. True a herding dog might work for the OP, but there may be wiser choices that give a better chance of success. JMHO.
When I was looking for a dog, I considered getting a samoyed. From google, it seems like 55 lb is the larger range but their grooming is supposedly high maintenance. The reason I didn't get one is the size. I wanted a smaller dog because my other dog.
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