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This is a great thread, and I think I found a dog meat vendor here so I am very interested.
I read not to do weight bearing bones because they are so hard they can crack the dogs teeth. But I think if they are sliced down the dogs wouldn't be trying to crack the bones to get to the marrow.
I always read so much conflicting info. So what are the things you can feed raw (after freezing to minimize pathogens)?
Neck bones
back bones
what about a whole rabbit?
how about chicken feet?
I have big dogs, but neither gulp their food.
Right now they are working on a bowl of kibble with cooked liver, oat meal, assorted veggies and left over sushi.
The vendor I found carries a huge assortment of things like tripe, hearts and the rest of the parts so I'm kinda excited.
My dogs mostly get chicken wings, once in a while a cornish hen, or the occasional turkey neck. You should not do weight bearing bones.
I do not freeze any of the raw, meaty bones I feed. A good wash, and down they go. There are not many pathogens that a dogs higher body temperature and shorter digestive track can't deal with when it comes to bones from human grade food. About 25-30% of the diet should be organ meat/veggie mix (we call ours patties) and that you do have to be more careful about. I make sure we get livers and hearts that are good quality and I always freeze those (worms/flukes are more likely in organ tissue). Chicken feet have literally nutritional value, same with whole rabbits.
OP
I will try to convince you to go raw one more time. It REALLY is easier and healthier then cooked. If you are still not interested, I will go away.
This is about the easiest (and balanced) I can find for beginners.
Buy the meat you want. Run the meat only through your grinder.
Add: https://www.drharveys.com/products/d...og-food-premix plus oil.
The above has all the supplements your dog needs on a daily basis. No grains. No carp. BALANCED.
Make in batches and freeze meal size portions.
I'm going to try some. My main concern was that if I use chicken leg qtrs I have to somehow remove the bone from the chicken. When it's raw it's not so easy and you might miss some. I could throw the whole piece of chicken in the grinder and feed her that. I do think beef could get kind of expensive. Even ground beef is maybe $3 bucks a pound for the cheapest. I guess that's not so much but chicken is .49 a pound on a regular basis.
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I think I understand about the bones and I read that in the link NoMoreSnow provided. Thanks Hiero2 as well.
I know exactly which bones are the marrow bones now. They are hard to find but I have seen them. But I think only as a treat once in a while? I know the bones themselves are too hard for the dog to chew up. It's a 20lb terrier. She might gnaw on it for a while but that's as far as she could get.
I don't get chicken or even turkey necks very often. Maybe when you buy the whole chicken. I'll ask around.
So do I give the dog raw chicken with the bones? That's where I'm a bit confused.
As far as the dog needing salt I wasn't sure, one person mentioned it so I looked it up and I think they do need it.
I don't think that I'll be putting in too many starches. Maybe a little rice or some kind of vegetables and of course that's only if I do cooked, not necessary with the raw.
By the way, I do have a very good meat grinder. I make my own sausage, it's one of my hobbies.
I'm going to try some. My main concern was that if I use chicken leg qtrs I have to somehow remove the bone from the chicken. When it's raw it's not so easy and you might miss some. I could throw the whole piece of chicken in the grinder and feed her that. I do think beef could get kind of expensive. Even ground beef is maybe $3 bucks a pound for the cheapest. I guess that's not so much but chicken is .49 a pound on a regular basis.
I think Mikala asked a similar question: What kind of stuff can you feed raw? And which dogs to feed which bones. By the way, did I say in my recipe post that I throw away the bones from the cooked chicken? Well, I do.
Pay attention to how strong a chewer your dog is. Some dogs don't chew things up much, other dogs the same size may demolish the same thing.
Chicken necks and turkey necks are good for pretty much any dog, any size. Chicken and turkey backs and ribs, pretty much the same thing. Beef neck bones - I like to get them cut larger for my 50 lb dogs. One local butcher cuts them into 1-2" sections, and those are too small. My dogs can chew up and eat almost all the bone from those. So I have a couple of other sources, and I try to get 3-4" sections so my dogs get plenty of chewing action, but don't end up eating ALL the bone, too. The bones I end up with, after the dogs are done, are always about half the size I would have thought, but it's all working out.
Chicken and turkey legs: maybe not the same thing, as they are weight-bearing bones. Depends on the size of the dog. Example: A youtuber feeding a raw leg to her dog. That dog, I would guess, is between 35 and 50 lbs. I wouldn't feed chicken legs to a dog under 75 lbs, but other people do. So if you want to feed RAW chicken or turkey legs to a smaller dog, you would have to grind them. I think any dog bigger than a small chihuahua could break up a chicken leg. I don't KNOW, this - but based on my experience I think that would be about right. I would expect any dog 20-25 lbs and up should be able to break up a turkey leg. But I wouldn't feed them those bones just because they can break them up. Sure, I've found a youtube of somebody doing what I wouldn't, right? But I put a little faith in the experience of other people who warn to be careful about weight-bearing bones. So I cook my chicken and turkey legs, and throw away the bones.
A note about grinding. I've tried 2 meat grinders. An attachment to a Kitchen-Aid blender, and an old home electric Rival. I did a lot of online research. I can tell you first hand the two I mentioned are NOT up to doing chicken or turkey legs. And, from what other users said, you aren't going to be able to do chicken or turkey legs on anything that costs less than $200. The quality won't be there. They might get through a few legs, but that'll be it. The smaller, cheaper units are good for grinding meats - and not even light bones.
Other bones: pretty much any bone section you can get, other than legs, from any animal besides pigs, is a good candidate. Legs require a different attitude, as discussed previously.
Innards: pretty much anything inside an animal can be eaten, with a couple of exceptions, AND if handled properly. The digestive guts, from the stomach down, I generally don't bother with. The bladder and the colon for obvious reasons. Stomachs and intestines are used as food, with proper preparation. Green tripe is stomach that has only been washed, and not been bleached. Intestines I know have uses like for sausage-making, but I don't know enough about that, so I don't go there. Lungs, trachea, tongue, heart, liver, kidneys, all are edible.
Notes on germs and parasites: The reason we don't eat rare pork is trichinosis, which is a parasitic worm. Nasty stuff. YOU HAVE TO FREEZE MEAT FOR 3 WEEKS, not days, to kill it. See the CDC on trichinosis. I don't know about other germs, but 3 weeks is my rule.
Dogs may be less susceptible to some germs than people, but they still have problems as a result of germs from contaminated meat, just like we do. If you do your own butchering, your meat will have fewer germs than store-bought - if you are careful. The thing is, between the pasture and your kitchen is a whole lot of potential for contamination. And it doesn't take much. I was sicker than a dog a few months back - probably because I didn't wash up well enough while handling some raw chicken for my dog food. Some gram negative bacteria - nasty. It could also have been from our eggs. I buy eggs from two local neighbors. Free-ranging hens, all that. And I have to say - chickens can be dirty critters. I don't think the eggs were the source, though, as such bacteria as I had are there all the time - or they aren't. If they were at either one of those homes, those neighbors would have gotten sick, too.
EDIT: gguerra, you posted while I was writing, so I didn't see it until after. Grinding meat - you make your own sausage, so you have some idea of what your grinder can do. IF your grinder is ALL METAL, try a chicken leg or two. If it isn't all metal, you will end up wearing out the non-metal parts. Maybe you already have one of those multi-horsepower megawattage grinders - I don't know!
Your dog is a 20 lb terrier. I think you've got lots of good options here, both raw and cooked. I've given you the best advice I can. I just don't know about giving your dog chicken or turkey LEGS raw. And that's because of the bones. I wouldn't do it, but maybe it would be ok. I would think you wouldn't give your dog a whole turkey leg - that would probably be enough for a whole day! Deboning a raw chicken leg is fairly time-consuming, but can be done. This is something I have expertise in, having once in my life spent time in a commercial kitchen. I don't think it's worth the trouble, and when you debone, you lose the joint soft tissue, which is very nutritious.
Just as a side note for multiple dog households: I used to bring butcher bones home but stopped when we added a new dog. So when I add things like necks for both dogs it will be under supervision and keeping space between the two. They don't squabble over food, but something like this they may become more territorial over.
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Thanks hiero2, you've been helpful. I did say "When it's raw it's not so easy and you might miss some". It's easy to remove the bones from the cooked chicken, not so easy from raw. Have you tried de-boning a RAW chicken? it can be done but not so easy and it's a too much trouble. I'd rather do the cooked if that was the case. I am an accomplished cook by the way and my grinder is quite powerful. I can grind 10 lbs of pork in a couple of minutes.
and in fact here's a video showing it grinding some frozen chicken with the bones. I don't really want to do that as it's probably a lot of wear and tear on it but some people use it for that as you can see.
My Vet recommended I go to Balance it website - its through UC Davis veterinary school and lets you make choices and get the nutrition your dog needs. I found what I was doing is just what he needs!!
Brown rice with shredded carrots and a scrambled egg (with some of the shell for calcium), add green peas, or green beans, or peas and carrots, along with ground or chicken breast that is baked or pan cooked. I add a couple of tablespoons of butter (unsalted) to the rice for the fat and sprinkle some cheese on top. Mix in his Cushings drops and in the am - some crunchy kibble for his teeth. I use 1/3 cup of chicken broth and water to cook the brown rice - for flavor (think that's more for me!). he has between 1/4 and 1/3 cup per meal. and the plate is cleaned!!.
. . . not so easy from raw. Have you tried de-boning a RAW chicken? it can be done but not so easy and it's a too much trouble. I'd rather do the cooked if that was the case. I am an accomplished cook by the way and my grinder is quite powerful. I can grind 10 lbs of pork in a couple of minutes.
This is the grinder I have. . . . .
Looks like that grinder might actually be able to do the trick! What you'll find with grinding chix (or turkey) legs is that the tendons will get wrapped around the worm (or auger, the middle turning screw part) and jam up at the grinding plate. More power helps to clear them. If all of the working bits are metal, and the body is metal, no worries. If it bogs down, it has only bogged down. If you KEPT on doing that you could burn it up, but a few times won't hurt. Any non-metal parts and the bones and tendons will wear them out pronto.
Boning chickens? Yeah, I do that. I learned to bone chickens in an Italian saute place a long time ago. That skill has come in handy a few times since. Once you know how, it isn't too hard, if you have a good sharp boning knife. The restaurants will never bone the legs, tho - they are too much work. Getting the legs, wings, and the breasts off the carcass tho, easy enough.
Someday maybe I can swap you some of my hand-picked wild Concord grape jam for some of your sausage!
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