Need advice with dog behavior (labs, boxer, clean, vet)
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A couple weeks ago, I picked up a purebred neutered male boxer from the county shelter. After research, we've been able to determine his DOB is 11/25/08, so he's young but not super young, and was mostly taken care of by previous owner - but we know he was beaten, not fed well (very under weight), and matted with urine when he came into the shelter. He was introduced to my 2 existing dogs, a 5-6 yo PB spayed female boxer and 4 yo spayed female lab/boxer. Both females are housebroken and crate trained, both are very well behaved in the house. All dogs are crated during the day hours while we're at work, and usually throughout the night. They are on a very regular routine with times going out, feeding, etc, even on weekends. The girls are tolerating him, no fights or dominence issues.
Within 2 days of coming home, he was diagnosed with pneumonia and was completely vetted at that time. The vet put him on 14 days of antibotics, which he's finished. During that time, he didn't have a lot of energy, so we did allow him some furniture priviledges so that he wasn't walked all over by the girls as they really didn't care about the fact he was sleeping on the floor next to the couch and just walked on top of him. After week 1 of meds, he did have blood and urine labs done and they came back clean. Vet gave him a good bill of health.
By watching how he releaves himself, he does not mark his territory when he urinates. He is very hesitant about going into his crate; when he first came, he would get very aggressive if we tried to put him in. We've been able to modify that behavior significantly.
We've also noticed he has single child syndrome. If we're not paying attention to him, he will go find a household item to chew on, pee on the floor, or do something to get our attention. We've been modifying this behavior by non-chalantly catching him and putting him in his crate with no scolding or reaction, and we've noticed a decreased in peeing on the floor.
So, this week other behavior has been getting worse. While we've been re-training house breaking, he's doing ok. But, its the time in the crate that is getting worse / vindictive. This morning, for example: He was taken out at 11.30pm before being put away, and I already know he can hold it for 8+ hours. At the time, he peed 2x, and I was careful to limit his water during the evening. Before I was up at 6am, he peed in his crate (we're estimating around 4.30-5am based on when we heard him making noise). He drank some of his urine, so when I let him out, he promptly threw up. I took him outside and he peed 2 more times and took 2 poos. The husband couldn't watch him as I was leaving for work, so I put him in Chloes cage (he's shared her cage several times this week as the peeing in the crate is NOT new ), took his cage outside to washout. As I came back in, he peed in Chloes cage. Paul got upset, I was trying to get out the door for work, and it was just a bad time for us .. our voices got loud at each other, and .. he peed a 4th time.
This is obviously a response/attention issue, but I don't know how to change it. Paul is fed up and ready to wash his hands of the situation, but I'm in the spot that 1. I have $500 invested in the little a**hole, and 2. I have faith that he really could be a good dog.
Crating a dog who's not been crated before takes training. It's a process and you can't hurry it. He needs to learn to LOVE his crate. Here's the method recommended by the Humane Society of the United States: Crate Training : The Humane Society of the United States
You should be feeding him in his crate, hiding little treats in the bedding in the crate and making it a pleasant place for him to be.
I don't know how you're giving him his house training refresher course, but check my old posts for my foolproof house training method.
I don't think dogs have it in them to be "vindictive." He may be confused, frightened, terrified. After all, he was abused, and it'll take time for him to learn your routines and not be afraid. Time.
I've adopted several older dogs from bad backgrounds. I don't feel like I even start to know them until I've had them for several weeks. Good on you for adopting a dog with such a sad start in life. Please have patience with him.
Location: Montreal -> CT -> MA -> Montreal -> Ottawa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chance2jump
I have $500 invested in the little a**hole
I was with you all the way through the post, feeling your frustration, with the exception of the crating during the day AND at night. I think that maybe you should try to give him a little slack in this department. Artie was rescued (he was an abused puppy) and his rescuer always crated him when she went to work, when she went on errands, etc... When I adopted him from her, I took his crate, but left the door open. He goes in it when he wants to. He's not destructive at all... anywhere. He didn't need to be in a crate. His previous owner was SHOCKED when I told her that (she sometimes babysits for him and I asked her not to crate him). He just needed someone to give him the slack so that he could prove himself. And he did.
The sentence that I quoted from your post... He's new to the family and you're referring to him as "the little a**hole" -- this made me uncomfortable. I know it was just your frustration coming out. I realize that. But PLEASE make sure that you're not showing your frustration to the dog(s). That's going to upset them -- especially your new boy -- and make training harder. Come here and vent, but put on a happy face to your new pup; he deserves it.
Dogs definitely pick up on frustration. When my SO is in the least bit frustrated at ANYthing (not frutrated with Willie, even; he's NEVER frustrated with anything Willie does), Willie slinks away and lies curled up in a spot he doesn't go to at any other time. I think he probably lived in a high stress household before we adopted him. But they'll definitely know if you're frustrated WITH them. It won't help things.
I have to say making a dog be in a crate all day and all night is just not right. what are you so afraid of happening? If you can train your dogs than you can train them to be fine while still allowed to walk around and be free. Why do you have 3 dogs if they can't even be out when you are home at night.
I am not attacking you but seriously......Let them be part of your pack. They will be better dogs and you will be happier.
No offence, but I tend to agree with Here Comes Sunshine... Being stuck in a crate all day and all night, especially after comming from such a stressful previous home... I don't find his behaviour a surprise. #1. He may be stressed by being confined for so long and #2. He has probably figured out that peeing will get him out of his confinement.
ViralMD's advice is dead on as far as encouraging him to like his crate more. Don't give up on him. When my dad and I brought home a rescue that had been abused, it took quite a while for him to settle in. It just takes time and understanding.
I have to say making a dog be in a crate all day and all night is just not right. what are you so afraid of happening? If you can train your dogs than you can train them to be fine while still allowed to walk around and be free. Why do you have 3 dogs if they can't even be out when you are home at night.
I am not attacking you but seriously......Let them be part of your pack. They will be better dogs and you will be happier.
I agree. Why crate them at night? And all day crate,,,?
While the issue of the number of hours crated vs. the number of hours in a day is an issue that does need to be addressed, I wouldn't say it's even in the top five of things that need to be done here and now.
What comes across from the OP's post, to me anyway, is that a bad situation escalated. Some of the dog's actions or responses seem to have been totally misinterpreted &/or not given the consideration they deserve.
The dog's talking, and no one is listening.
"Single child syndrome", "vindictive" "attention issue" "not marking territory when urinating" ALL suggest that - to be blunt - a refresher course in Canine Thought, Communication & Behaviour isn't just a good idea, it's a must.
While the issue of the number of hours crated vs. the number of hours in a day is an issue that does need to be addressed, I wouldn't say it's even in the top five of things that need to be done here and now.
What comes across from the OP's post, to me anyway, is that a bad situation escalated. Some of the dog's actions or responses seem to have been totally misinterpreted &/or not given the consideration they deserve.
The dog's talking, and no one is listening.
"Single child syndrome", "vindictive" "attention issue" "not marking territory when urinating" ALL suggest that - to be blunt - a refresher course in Canine Thought, Communication & Behaviour isn't just a good idea, it's a must.
This is SPOT ON. Get a hold of 'The Other End of the Leash' - a GREAT book by Patricia McConnell. It will open your eyes to what you should be seeing in your dog's behavior!
I have to say making a dog be in a crate all day and all night is just not right. what are you so afraid of happening? If you can train your dogs than you can train them to be fine while still allowed to walk around and be free. Why do you have 3 dogs if they can't even be out when you are home at night.
I am not attacking you but seriously......Let them be part of your pack. They will be better dogs and you will be happier.
Since this seems to be the main point that everyone is concerned with, I guess I'll go ahead an address the question. Yes, the dogs will be crated at night. Not all the time, not every night. There are some nights the girls are crated. Some nights the girls are not. It is at our descretion, and I don't think anyone who is not in our household has any right to criticize what we practice without knowing the details. Fair enough?
Husband and I are on opposite schedules. I work M-F, he works F-M. There are only 2 days a week (F & M) we are both not home during work hours - meaning, only 2 days a week they spend all day in a crate while we're at work; and it is not a full 8+ hours because we're on different shifts, he leaves late morning, I'm home early evening. I'd say, compared to some other dogs out there, they have it pretty good. The girls are our best friends and partners in crime. They are not crated "all the time" like so many of you jumped to conclusion. They are locked in crates when we're not home because of our lease agreement. My LL lives next door and can check in on any time. I'm not violating my lease because someone online feels I'm not capable of training my dogs. Seriously -Here comes Sunshine- how about you get details before jumping to conclusions?
Yes, I referred to him as a "little a**hole" because that is exactly what I was feeling at the time. I didn't scream at him, take it out on him, or even vocalize my feelings to him - I vented online.
Now can we address the issue I'm concerned with?
To answer another question regarding the new dogs exercise schedule: we are on several acres with a large portion fenced in. The 3 get time outside to get their crazy / running / mud puddle jumping out of their system just about every afternoon/evening. I do not let them run around outside when its raining, which has been quite a bit this winter, because it tears up the (very precious) grass. We have clay soil that does not grow grass well at all, and we're trying to prevent erosion. I take them out for longer walks on the leash on the weekends, weather permitting. Husband is recovering from a knee injury, so his physical abilities are limited.
Since there is a general agreement that I'm no in tune with what the dog is saying, mind enlightening me? By stating single child syndrome, vindictive and attention issue - I'm describing what the situation appears in the best way I can to associate behavior with descriptions.
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After week 1 of meds, he did have blood and urine labs done and they came back clean. Vet gave him a good bill of health. 
), took his cage outside to washout. As I came back in, he peed in Chloes cage. Paul got upset, I was trying to get out the door for work, and it was just a bad time for us .. our voices got loud at each other, and .. he peed a 4th time.
