Why the hate for Unions? (insurance, free market, limitations, sell)
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Wrong forum. This crap is for the politics section.
Actually, this is very much both politics and economics. But the main reason for union bashing is wage jealousy and Republican rhetoric . The Republicans know that the unions and democrats have had a symbiotic relationship for years and they recognize that they can influence elections in a major way by destroying unions. Secondly, companies like GM have been blaming terrible management and faulty planning on the folks who install the door handles for years. For 20 years GM management only excelled at one thing: making PPT presentation that blamed their failings on the union.
why not? It's an easy way to make people fight against their own rights. Still reminds me of the same joke.
"a ceo, a tea party and a union worker sit down at a table. In the middle of the table is a plate with 12 chocolate chip cookies on it. The ceo grabs 11 cookies and turns to the tea party and says, "you'd better be careful," nodding to the union worker, "that guy's trying to take your cookie.""
Actually, this is very much both politics and economics. But the main reason for union bashing is wage jealousy and Republican rhetoric . The Republicans know that the unions and democrats have had a symbiotic relationship for years and they recognize that they can influence elections in a major way by destroying unions. Secondly, companies like GM have been blaming terrible management and faulty planning on the folks who install the door handles for years. For 20 years GM management only excelled at one thing: making PPT presentation that blamed their failings on the union.
Actually, GM's demise is a rare example of union/management cooperation. Have you seen the compensation levels of their plant workers? Then there was the labor pool where laid-off workers weren't really laid off. They just went to a different building and read the newspaper and played monopoly all day.
I have never had a problem with collective bargaining nor the concept of unions. All people my age (well over 40) understand what led to the creation of unions.
The problem with unions today and over the last 20 years has been that they distort the ebb and flow of wages and the economy. They grew too powerful in many cases. They reward seniority instead of merit too often. They create ridiculous barriers to getting ordinary tasks done.
When the economy sours, unions stand by their contracts and refuse to concede. If the employer lacks courage (like Detroit automakers), they concede and the excessive pay and benefits continues until the business is almost irreperably harmed.
The manufacturing jobs lost to overseas cheap labor countries is at least partially due to union inflexiblity. Workers in other countries are hungry for work and wages. Many union workers think consumers should bear the burden of their refusal to accept less pay. I am "white collar" and my pay is down signficantly over the last three years. That's what happens when profit disappears. But classic union behavior would stand by their contract and refuse to concede. So over the last twenty years manufacturing sites go overseas.
I have participated in many conventions and trade shows in NYC. The Teamsters, who "own" these facilities in NYC, are obnoxious and ridiculous. I have to get an electrician to run an extension cord in my on exhibit booth? A guy needs to make $40/hour to do that? I find that offensive.
Unions need to adjust to a global workforce. The UAW finally realized that using an air gun on a bolt isn't worth $35/hour with full medical benefits into retirement. A high school kid with one year of training can do that job.
Public worker unions have a unique position. They don't compete with overseas workers. They have a position unusually close to politicians, and politicians can EASILY legislate benefits for state workers to earn votes.
Hence the rich pensions creating huge economic problems for California and other states.
In NYC, only 0.3% of teachers are fired every year. There is no large workforce of any kind, anywhere, where only 0.3% of the employees deserve to be fired every year. Why is the rate so low? Teachers unions with overprotective, legally enforced policies.
I have never had a problem with collective bargaining nor the concept of unions. All people my age (well over 40) understand what led to the creation of unions.
The problem with unions today and over the last 20 years has been that they distort the ebb and flow of wages and the economy. They grew too powerful in many cases. They reward seniority instead of merit too often. They create ridiculous barriers to getting ordinary tasks done.
When the economy sours, unions stand by their contracts and refuse to concede. If the employer lacks courage (like Detroit automakers), they concede and the excessive pay and benefits continues until the business is almost irreperably harmed.
The manufacturing jobs lost to overseas cheap labor countries is at least partially due to union inflexiblity. Workers in other countries are hungry for work and wages. Many union workers think consumers should bear the burden of their refusal to accept less pay. I am "white collar" and my pay is down signficantly over the last three years. That's what happens when profit disappears. But classic union behavior would stand by their contract and refuse to concede. So over the last twenty years manufacturing sites go overseas.
I have participated in many conventions and trade shows in NYC. The Teamsters, who "own" these facilities in NYC, are obnoxious and ridiculous. I have to get an electrician to run an extension cord in my on exhibit booth? A guy needs to make $40/hour to do that? I find that offensive.
Unions need to adjust to a global workforce. The UAW finally realized that using an air gun on a bolt isn't worth $35/hour with full medical benefits into retirement. A high school kid with one year of training can do that job.
Well said, thank you.
Unionists like to blame the corporations for taking jobs overseas when it is really the US consumers who are to blame. If there was no overseas competition, we would be paying US$20,000 for a television set from RCA. American consumers voted with their wallets including the multitude of public sector union thugs.
I want to see the Union thugs promise to buy only American-made products if they want to see US companies bring manufacturing back to the USA.
I want to see the Union thugs promise to buy only American-made products if they want to see US companies bring manufacturing back to the USA.
Put up or shut up, Union thugs!
You're absolutely right on that point. Proud union workers love to buy clothing made in 3rd world sweat shops....and then blame Republicans for destroying our manufacturing base.
Union or no union, if you aren't making a living wage, you might as well root for your favorite NBA team, 'cause that's as valuable an indignation towards union labor dynamics and public sector work as there is. Nah, this is yet again another case of 'We ain't happy til u ain't happy' The american way. Rooting for economic policy that works against your own self-interest because it comes packaged with social policy you feel identified to. Suckers.
People are jousting at windmills here. Living wage jobs are on the decline. Dual income households are about an expectation to meet financial solvency (median house price vs median INDIVIDUAL income is a prime example), that right there is symptomatic of a declining, not increasing, standard of living. People keep graduating college, and our population keeps flocking at every swinging "hot job" that pops up (nursing, et al). Hotel's full fellas, somebody's increasingly gonna have to man the fryer with a Masters degree. Supply and demand.
There's not enough living wage jobs to go around for the number or people who aspire to have above median income households. And make no mistake, the majority of households who make less than median income aren't there by choice, they're hungry to make more. So we got a problem. This discontent ain't gonna go away any time soon. This pipedream that living wage jobs are going to start popping up like black gold texas T is crazy. The clearest solution is to lower cost of living in this country. That's going to mean a decreased standard of living for the median. Considering life in America is not too painful when compared to the rest of Latin America, I'd say we could take the reset and survive. Bunch of people are gonna have to learn to do less with less though. And that's the rub. We don't wanna. Union dynamics is a sideshow.
There's no doubt as our population ages, they become increasingly more rent-seeking. Blaming it solely on unions is a diversion.All I know is, if my standard of living becomes no more "median" than the median brazilian, I sure as heck ain't gonna work 60 hrs/week in America for the priviledge. Brush up on that Portuguese (hell, spanish would get you around down there) and do it on 35hrs/wk. This country has a choice to make and we ain't making it. It's gonna be made for us in 20 years and it's not gonna be pretty.
Union or no union, if you aren't making a living wage, you might as well root for your favorite NBA team, 'cause that's as valuable an indignation towards union labor dynamics and public sector work as there is. Nah, this is yet again another case of 'We ain't happy til u ain't happy' The american way. Rooting for economic policy that works against your own self-interest because it comes packaged with social policy you feel identified to. Suckers.
People are jousting at windmills here. Living wage jobs are on the decline. Dual income households are about an expectation to meet financial solvency (median house price vs median INDIVIDUAL income is a prime example), that right there is symptomatic of a declining, not increasing, standard of living. People keep graduating college, and our population keeps flocking at every swinging "hot job" that pops up (nursing, et al). Hotel's full fellas, somebody's increasingly gonna have to man the fryer with a Masters degree. Supply and demand.
There's not enough living wage jobs to go around for the number or people who aspire to have above median income households. And make no mistake, the majority of households who make less than median income aren't there by choice, they're hungry to make more. So we got a problem. This discontent ain't gonna go away any time soon. This pipedream that living wage jobs are going to start popping up like black gold texas T is crazy. The clearest solution is to lower cost of living in this country. That's going to mean a decreased standard of living for the median. Considering life in America is not too painful when compared to the rest of Latin America, I'd say we could take the reset and survive. Bunch of people are gonna have to learn to do less with less though. And that's the rub. We don't wanna. Union dynamics is a sideshow.
There's no doubt as our population ages, they become increasingly more rent-seeking. Blaming it solely on unions is a diversion.All I know is, if my standard of living becomes no more "median" than the median brazilian, I sure as heck ain't gonna work 60 hrs/week in America for the priviledge. Brush up on that Portuguese (hell, spanish would get you around down there) and do it on 35hrs/wk. This country has a choice to make and we ain't making it. It's gonna be made for us in 20 years and it's not gonna be pretty.
Good post.
I agree with what you are saying because long ago I realised that as the living standards in other countries rise, the living standard in the USA will fall to meet their rising standards. Why? Well, with 6% of the world's population, the US has been using 20-25% of the world's oil (for example). I was in China in 1989-90 and could see that once those millions of consumers could afford a car that oil demand would rise steeply.
So, what to do if you are a middle class American and hope to remain so? Invest in America. Stop buying cr@p and start buying productive assets. I own only one car, but I do own shares in some of America's largest corporations which are doing business all over the world (and they pay dividends).
Union thugs need to stop bashing the corporations and get on the band-wagon. One can still build wealth over a long period of time by wise investing, and frugal living. Americans have been spending recklessly for years and not saving anything. How could we expect to continue doing that forever? What makes us so great that we need 5,000 ft2 houses when families elsewhere fit 5-10 people in houses <2000 ft2?
Overweight, overspent, under-saved, clueless....not really clueless, just unwilling to admit the obvious.
Getting back to the union thugs: why can't their people save 10-20% of their income for their own retirement like the rest of us have to? What makes them so special that they expect 30-50 years of pension after having worked only 20-30 years?
Unions are a waste of time simply because the fact of the matter is that if you are so underpaid, overworked and hate your job then you just leave.
If you aren't well paid and enjoy your job then you just quit or do a crappy job. The employer has a direct incentive to pay their employees what they are worth because they get to keep all the fruits of your labor, especially if you work hard.
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