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Old 08-23-2012, 06:32 PM
 
3,697 posts, read 4,999,583 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenneth-Kaunda View Post
too much consumption is greed though, as it merely becomes consumption for the sake of consumption and status.

Someone must work long hours at low pay, to create the 5 phones for the young rich boy, who will only discard 4 of them when he becomes bored of his toys.

This is unproductive work, and creates a subservient class, and the next generation of idle aristocrats.

???

It's called someone needs to form a union and needs to put in labor laws but at the moment places with cheap labor(china don't want to do that else their labor won't be so cheap).
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Old 08-23-2012, 06:35 PM
 
5,190 posts, read 4,839,638 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
Obviously, you can see how harmful propaganda and disinformation are. You are being lied to, and because you are being lied to, you cannot see the Truth, and as a result, you make bad decisions....like Obamacare.

Mircea
thanks for the good long post, and I only have time right now to look at this point.

Obamacare - bad?

how about fully socialised medicine that actually works - places like France, UK etc..

what is so wrong with that? (bearing in mind you can get private insurance as well if you so desire)
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Old 08-23-2012, 08:14 PM
 
3,697 posts, read 4,999,583 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenneth-Kaunda View Post
thanks for the good long post, and I only have time right now to look at this point.

Obamacare - bad?

how about fully socialised medicine that actually works - places like France, UK etc..

what is so wrong with that? (bearing in mind you can get private insurance as well if you so desire)
Actually I like the idea of socialized medicine, and think it would help the US. The only trouble is the taxes it consumes can limit growth in other areas. However I don't think the free market works for all things. Certain things are natural monopolies, other things just don't shop well (i.e. Healthcare).

If health care were like restaurants they would run the gambit from fast food to fine dining. Sit-down family dinners to themed franchises. You could just about find a meal for almost any money level. However with healthcare you can't compare prices very easy(i.e. Price discovery). You can't easily do with less/without or substitute and private insurance needs to make a profit(and thus cannot handle the worse of the worse).
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Old 08-24-2012, 04:21 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,554 posts, read 86,992,173 times
Reputation: 36644
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trackwatch View Post
Parasites live off their host with no benefit to the host and in most cases harm is done to the host.
Was Todd Akin your high school biology teacher?

In many cases, it is difficult to demonstrate that the host is harmed. -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parasitism

Your digestive system is full of parasites called probiotic flora, and you can't live without them.

Mitt Romney is a parasite who lives off the American people to the tune of about $25-million a year, seeming to do the hosts little or no visible harm. In fact, look at all the gratitude the hosts show him in return.

Last edited by jtur88; 08-24-2012 at 04:39 PM..
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Old 08-24-2012, 05:06 PM
 
26,790 posts, read 22,556,454 times
Reputation: 10038
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenneth-Kaunda View Post
Communism - much criticised by the Western countries but could it work given the right situation?

People say that if there is no incentive then no-one will work - but surely that is wrong.

Agreed, people may work less but they would still need to earn their pay check.

I imagine some kind of wage and price controls would be needed, and some limitations on freedom, but what are the main problems in stopping it from working?

All big industries could be nationalised and the smaller ones would have to abide by specific regulations - ie: laws against hoarding , speculating, and wages etc..

What will go wrong here?

any ideas, thanks
I see a lot of people are referring to the Soviet Union here in response, but there was no "communism" there, really, - by their own definition it was socialism. The motto of socialism is "from everyone according to their abilities, to everyone - according to their labor." The motto of communism was "from everyone according to their abilities, to everyone - according to their needs."
Which is really an utopia ( try to satisfy everyone's needs and particularly try to identify what "needs" are, and how they differ from "wants" in every person.)
So back to the socialism in the Soviet Union - the biggest problem there was not actually an economy ( that could be fixed and tweaked,) but ideology. It was so rigid, that after the initial success of the first stage ( ie. massive industrialization of mostly agrarian country) and in spite of all the victims of that industrialization, they could definitely do much better after they've won the WWII. But even such simple thing as allowance of the private sector in light industry/ food-processing industry/ service industry, which would have greatly boosted the economy and alleviated shortages, the ideology wouldn't allow the hired labor ( ie hired by private business) to exist, since profits made by the owner of a company with hired labor would have been already considered exploitation by Soviet standards. That was one of the biggest drawbacks, along with suppression of talented individuals, who were often left out of promotions, since they were deemed not "trustworthy" from ideological point of view by the party bosses.
So basically the ideology that was a positive factor on the initial stages, became the destructive factor on the later stages, although of course for such country as Russia, ( that was basically in semi-colonial situation before the October revolution) socialist economy had its own advantages.
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Old 08-24-2012, 08:20 PM
 
18,069 posts, read 18,822,893 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chirack View Post
However with healthcare you can't compare prices very easy(i.e. Price discovery).
You mean when someone is having a heart attack, seriously injured from a car crash, or hysterical over a serious diagnosis; they do not go shopping around for doctors like they do a car?
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Old 08-25-2012, 08:14 AM
 
Location: Ohio
3,437 posts, read 6,075,469 times
Reputation: 2700
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Was Todd Akin your high school biology teacher?

In many cases, it is difficult to demonstrate that the host is harmed. -- Parasitism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Your digestive system is full of parasites called probiotic flora, and you can't live without them.

Mitt Romney is a parasite who lives off the American people to the tune of about $25-million a year, seeming to do the hosts little or no visible harm. In fact, look at all the gratitude the hosts show him in return.

Really? FIRST sentence "Parasitism is a type of non mutual relationship between organisms of different species where one organism, the parasite, benefits at the expense of the other, the host."
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Old 08-25-2012, 08:59 AM
 
3,697 posts, read 4,999,583 times
Reputation: 2075
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus View Post
You mean when someone is having a heart attack, seriously injured from a car crash, or hysterical over a serious diagnosis; they do not go shopping around for doctors like they do a car?
Yeap, but even when they are not when is the last time a doctor put his fee for all his services where you could easily access them? Most they might do is put some of them up on a paper in his office. Not like a car where you can buy a newspaper or search the web and get some rough pricing information.
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Old 08-25-2012, 09:10 AM
 
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
407 posts, read 829,931 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NCN View Post
Living under communism breaks the human spirit.
And watching CEOs lay off thousands of workers just to save their bonus does not?
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Old 08-25-2012, 11:37 AM
 
Location: Fairfield, CT
6,981 posts, read 10,951,875 times
Reputation: 8822
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenneth-Kaunda View Post
Communism - much criticised by the Western countries but could it work given the right situation?

People say that if there is no incentive then no-one will work - but surely that is wrong.

Agreed, people may work less but they would still need to earn their pay check.

I imagine some kind of wage and price controls would be needed, and some limitations on freedom, but what are the main problems in stopping it from working?

All big industries could be nationalised and the smaller ones would have to abide by specific regulations - ie: laws against hoarding , speculating, and wages etc..

What will go wrong here?

any ideas, thanks
Communism can never work because it goes against the most fundamental characteristics of human nature.
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