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Ok, now you just switched from talking about a "free ride" to "community college, 10K in debt and 4 jobs", if you fail to see the non-sequitor here, that college you attended failed at it's job!
The rest of your post is a "straw man" as I only am questioning your assertion that, "If they were the brightest college would have been free. I'm not even all that bright, and even I was able to get a full ride scholarship."
You know what else you could do? Pay for your entire tuition out-of-pocket (like I did for both myself and my son)! But, that still is no "free ride". What you had available to you in Maryland a few years back, is simply not available to any "smart" person elsewhere. Other options, yes.
I was talking options, you said they weren't there, they are. Heres a list of 20 colleges that don't do loans:
If Johnny Liberal Arts Degree from Elitist East Coast College uses his Starbucks check to pay his student loans that money gets lent out to someone else who then spends it in the economy. It's the same net effect as if Little Johnny spent it himself (like what could have happened if he went to a more affordable school, or skipped it all together since he's slinging coffee and all).
As long as those dollars aren't piling up under the mattress they are working the economy, it doesn't matter that the Kelli Spaces out there have their $200k debts for an undergrad. I mean it sucks for them to have debt, I can only imagine how that limits their personal lives, but as long as they keep making those payments the train keeps a chugging.
Well considering that the average household income in the US is under 50k and about 40% of the US has a bachelors or higher then I think its fair to say that a good deal of college educated people are pulling in 60k a year or less. Plus not every household has two college educated spouses....I was only doing the math for the DTI based on ONE student loan balance, not two.
Hh income doesn't mean multiple earners. Two earner hh earn in the high 60s I believe and that doesn't factor in educational backgrounds
Per the bls the median weekly earnings with a bachelors is 1108 or 57616 annual, dual educated earner would push that number to 115k+
I didn't read the entire thread, but there was a few articles I saw on the internet and one in the Wall Street Journal in the last few weeks saying that Millennials are putting off buying a house and some not considering it at all.
I can only speak from personal experience. I have a good income and am paying my student loans. My monthly payments are high because I'm paying ahead and plan to be done in 2 years. Until those are gone, house buying is out of the question. But the other reason house buying is out of the question for us now is because we want to move from the state we are currently in. So it's a combo. Without the student loan payments, honestly, I would save more. The recession scared me and having just had a baby, our priorities have changed.
I didn't read the entire thread, but there was a few articles I saw on the internet and one in the Wall Street Journal in the last few weeks saying that Millennials are putting off buying a house and some not considering it at all.
I can only speak from personal experience. I have a good income and am paying my student loans. My monthly payments are high because I'm paying ahead and plan to be done in 2 years. Until those are gone, house buying is out of the question. But the other reason house buying is out of the question for us now is because we want to move from the state we are currently in. So it's a combo. Without the student loan payments, honestly, I would save more. The recession scared me and having just had a baby, our priorities have changed.
Bingo, this was my main point. I too am a millenial and I lived in 4 states before I settled down. We understand that the job market is much more global in nature than it was when our parents started working. The internet is a key contributor to this. It doesn't make sense to buy a house unless you know exactly where you want to live. For a lot of millenials that isn't until they hit 30ish. When I was 22 I wanted to move to Florida, I moved there. I ended up not liking it at all. If I would have bought a house I would have been stuck. Instead, I just left and found employment elsewhere.
Bingo, this was my main point. I too am a millenial and I lived in 4 states before I settled down. We understand that the job market is much more global in nature than it was when our parents started working. The internet is a key contributor to this. It doesn't make sense to buy a house unless you know exactly where you want to live. For a lot of millenials that isn't until they hit 30ish. When I was 22 I wanted to move to Florida, I moved there. I ended up not liking it at all. If I would have bought a house I would have been stuck. Instead, I just left and found employment elsewhere.
Where in Fl if you don't mind me asking? I hear this a lot from Midwesterners and Californians, but not New Englanders.
Where in Fl if you don't mind me asking? I hear this a lot from Midwesterners and Californians, but not New Englanders.
I lived in East Orlando. Not the glamorous place I remember from vacations
But I did meet my wife there so it wasn't all bad
Funny you mention that though, because my wife's dad moved down to Florida from Hartford when he was 18 and loved it so much he never left. So maybe you have some anecdotal truth there.
I lived in East Orlando. Not the glamorous place I remember from vacations
But I did meet my wife there so it wasn't all bad
Funny you mention that though, because my wife's dad moved down to Florida from Hartford when he was 18 and loved it so much he never left. So maybe you have some anecdotal truth there.
Ahhh yes Orlando has changed a LOT. Orlanda/Tampa are almost one city now if you look at a satellite image. My wifes family moved here from South Dakota and stayed just long enough to afford to move back, they HATED it. It didn't help that they came in July
However I think New Englanders are used to the humidity and usually know what theyre getting into. Californians that Ive talked to just don't like the culture shock on top of the humidity. They also don't understand why it doesn't get colder at night
Ahhh yes Orlando has changed a LOT. Orlanda/Tampa are almost one city now if you look at a satellite image. My wifes family moved here from South Dakota and stayed just long enough to afford to move back, they HATED it. It didn't help that they came in July
However I think New Englanders are used to the humidity and usually know what theyre getting into. Californians that Ive talked to just don't like the culture shock on top of the humidity. They also don't understand why it doesn't get colder at night
I honestly didn't like the people (being from the midwest) and the schools. I didn't want to raise kids there. When I say I didn't like the people, I mean it was a very selfish culture, not at all like the midwest and south. No holding doors for strangers, etc. Instead it was closer to slam the door in their face, lol.
Also, pay isn't that great. They call it the Florida factor, you are taking a pay cut for the privilege of living in such a beautiful state.
Funny story. My wife was born and raised in the Orlando area. We moved up to Pittsburgh for a while and were looking for a place to rent. As we were walking down the street a guy walked by and said hi to us and I said hi back. My wife turned towards me and said "Do you know him?" I said, "no", that is how people in the rest of the US act towards people they pass.
If Johnny Liberal Arts Degree from Elitist East Coast College uses his Starbucks check to pay his student loans that money gets lent out to someone else who then spends it in the economy. It's the same net effect as if Little Johnny spent it himself (like what could have happened if he went to a more affordable school, or skipped it all together since he's slinging coffee and all).
As long as those dollars aren't piling up under the mattress they are working the economy, it doesn't matter that the Kelli Spaces out there have their $200k debts for an undergrad. I mean it sucks for them to have debt, I can only imagine how that limits their personal lives, but as long as they keep making those payments the train keeps a chugging.
No, I did not. I said, "I know some top students who did not even come close to a full ride. One boy I know with a 4.0 and ACT of 36 got $40K to go to NYU, which barely offsets the cost of out-of-state attendance. Often, it is a specific skill or interest that gets folks scholarship and grant money or simply financial need."
Did you think I would not read the article you are posting in defense of your statement that, "I'm not even all that bright, and even I was able to get a full ride scholarship"? (See how that quoting thing works, BTW?)
Every college listed is either Ivy League or "based on exceptional ability" or has a "need-based" or specialty component. i.e "Deep Springs College, located on a cattle-ranch and alfalfa farm in Inyo County, California, educates students of exceptional ability. Many of the students have turned down offers from some of the most highly esteemed colleges in the United States."
Additionally, these are mostly tiny liberal arts schools and exceptions, not the rule. Certainly not capable of educating the 21.8 million college students per year for free.
The article is peppered with statements like, "Ninety percent of applicants are required to show financial need to be accepted". Which was my original assertion.
And most of them are liberal Arts Colleges which you deride: "Berea College, a private, liberal arts college", "College of the Ozarks, a private, Christian liberal arts college affiliated with the Presbyterian Church", "Curtis Institute of Music, one of the leading conservatories in the world, provides training and education to exceptionally gifted young musicians for careers as performing artists", "The Cooper Union for the Advancement of Science and Art", "Macaulay Honors College, located in New York City, reports that it inspires and prepares high-achieving students", "Barclay College, a Bible college located in Haviland, Kansas" , "Alice Lloyd College, a liberal arts college located in Pippa Passe, Kentucky", "Harvard University, a private, Ivy League research university"...and on and on!
No doubt a perfect student who wishes to attend The Tiny Liberals Arts College On The Prairie has options to avoid debt. Sure, if you get accepted to Yale and your family makes less than $65K you might pull it off. Stanford? Duke? Brown? All Ivy league with very low acceptance rates. What about the other 21.7 million? Do we just give up on educating Americans. Or give everyone an engineering degree making them a dime a dozen? A few "liberal arts" classes might've helped you with your critical thinking skills, I'd surmise.
BTW, I have a liberal arts degree and make more money than 95% of Americans. Zero debt too. Never been to a Starbucks either. And those "affordable schools"? They run about $25K a year once you include everything.
Last edited by shaker281; 08-17-2014 at 11:46 PM..
No, I did not. I said, "I know some top students who did not even come close to a full ride. One boy I know with a 4.0 and ACT of 36 got $40K to go to NYU, which barely offsets the cost of out-of-state attendance. Often, it is a specific skill or interest that gets folks scholarship and grant money or simply financial need."
Did you think I would not read the article you are posting in defense of your statement that, "I'm not even all that bright, and even I was able to get a full ride scholarship"? (See how that quoting thing works, BTW?)
Every college listed is either Ivy League or "based on exceptional ability" or has a "need-based" or specialty component. i.e "Deep Springs College, located on a cattle-ranch and alfalfa farm in Inyo County, California, educates students of exceptional ability. Many of the students have turned down offers from some of the most highly esteemed colleges in the United States."
Additionally, these are mostly tiny liberal arts schools and exceptions, not the rule. Certainly not capable of educating the 21.8 million college students per year for free.
The article is peppered with statements like, "Ninety percent of applicants are required to show financial need to be accepted". Which was my original assertion.
And most of them are liberal Arts Colleges which you deride: "Berea College, a private, liberal arts college", "College of the Ozarks, a private, Christian liberal arts college affiliated with the Presbyterian Church", "Curtis Institute of Music, one of the leading conservatories in the world, provides training and education to exceptionally gifted young musicians for careers as performing artists", "The Cooper Union for the Advancement of Science and Art", "Macaulay Honors College, located in New York City, reports that it inspires and prepares high-achieving students", "Barclay College, a Bible college located in Haviland, Kansas" , "Alice Lloyd College, a liberal arts college located in Pippa Passe, Kentucky", "Harvard University, a private, Ivy League research university"...and on and on!
No doubt a perfect student who wishes to attend The Tiny Liberals Arts College On The Prairie has options to avoid debt. Sure, if you get accepted to Yale and your family makes less than $65K you might pull it off. Stanford? Duke? Brown? All Ivy league with very low acceptance rates. What about the other 21.7 million? Do we just give up on educating Americans. Or give everyone an engineering degree making them a dime a dozen? A few "liberal arts" classes might've helped you with your critical thinking skills, I'd surmise.
BTW, I have a liberal arts degree and make more money than 95% of Americans. Zero debt too. Never been to a Starbucks either. And those "affordable schools"? They run about $25K a year once you include everything.
.
Certainly not everyone can be an engineer, but I assure you engineering classes will prevent the hacks from making the degrees a dime a dozen. Hard sciences are not just about putting in the time. But people with the aptitude would do well to pursue such fields as that's where a good portion of the college to career jobs are.
As far as sending the other 20 million odd children to college, is it really wise to sell college as the end all be all of education. At 20 I made more than 90% of Americans, having never stepped foot into a college. Not saying college is bad, or that liberal arts degrees are bad, but let's use that critical thinking thing you were talking about and apply it to student loans. If you don't have a clear cut way of paying for the degree, maybe you should find an education that will pay for the degree. It's great that you earn so much, but that's not the norm for someone with a liberal arts undergrad degree, heck that's not the norm for some doctors depending on where you draw the 95% line.
I don't understand the need for the personal attacks, but I guess that's how you Internet 5%ers roll.
BTW when did Duke and Stanford become Ivy League?
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