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I'd say it's more for prestige reasons than really competitive. University with big price tag sounds fancy. In reality, it's mostly Honda Civics marked up to the price of an S-Class Mercedes and then they offer an "aid" package to make the price reasonable again and attract the qualified students who are shopping around for the school that will give them the most money. The only people paying the full freight are basically wealthy kids who don't belong at the caliber of school they are attending and basically are paying their way in.
The education at prestige schools doesn't have to be better per se. The advantage is in the networking. If you go to law school at Stanford or Yale or Harvard (or various others) you will be rubbing shoulders with children of very well connected people and you will tend to get the best clerkships, jobs at the best law firms, and so forth.
I myself attended state universities for both undergraduate and graduate school, so I am not speaking from personal experience, but I have some highly placed and well connected cousins who explained all that to me.
The education at prestige schools doesn't have to be better per se. The advantage is in the networking. If you go to law school at Stanford or Yale or Harvard (or various others) you will be rubbing shoulders with children of very well connected people and you will tend to get the best clerkships, jobs at the best law firms, and so forth.
I myself attended state universities for both undergraduate and graduate school, so I am not speaking from personal experience, but I have some highly placed and well connected cousins who explained all that to me.
Law school more depends what you want to practice. If you want to go into academics, become a judge, big box corporate law, Ivy is great. If that's not what you want to do, it's actually a disadvantage. Unless maybe you want to go into politics rather than practice law. But yeah, the academics isn't any better. It's the same classes, same textbooks. Hell, you even get the same professors since visiting faculty is so common in law school.
Also depends. My LSATs really weren't competitive for T14. Best I could realistically get into would be a solid regional school. Too many people going into those for the jobs available so I didn't bother.
There are plenty of small towns and rural areas where you will find good majors at Burger King, because there is no local market in the field, and the schools are too far from major metros to have good employer connections.
so, not willing to relocate. got it.
there'es not many towns smaller than where I grew up. if a comp sci major was silly enough to move back there and hope to find a job, they only have themselves to blame.
I went to a state college right after high school. Dropped out twice (because I've made a lot of bad decisions), finally graduated after transferring twice and having three different majors over fifteen years (hello again, decision-making disorder).
I found what I love to do, but in the meantime we were forced to move because our housing was tied to my partner's job. Job went away, so did the 2BR ranch. Gave up my dreams and we moved to western NC from the Philadelphia area because my family would not take us in, while his would.
So, here we are. Late 30s, living with his folks, he's working PT retail because that's all he could find, and I'm still looking for ANYTHING because now I'm an over-educated Yankee in the mountains who has $68K in student loans hanging over her head. Temp jobs don't last and nobody else is responding to my applications, cover letters and resumes. Even chains I used to work for won't re-hire me.
Yeah. Boomerang kid and scared to death. I can't afford to move "where the jobs are" because we spent our tiny savings in our move south. I'm forever grateful to his folks for taking us in, but always feel like a burden on them because I'm having such a hard time finding work.
I'd say it's more for prestige reasons than really competitive. University with big price tag sounds fancy. In reality, it's mostly Honda Civics marked up to the price of an S-Class Mercedes and then they offer an "aid" package to make the price reasonable again and attract the qualified students who are shopping around for the school that will give them the most money. The only people paying the full freight are basically wealthy kids who don't belong at the caliber of school they are attending and basically are paying their way in.
I kind of got pinched with the rising UC tuition since I lost out on the need-based moneys after my second year since my mom's income went up. That hole has since been plugged with the Middle Class Scholarship in California. Of course, I still got the merit-based aid/scholarships which covered over half of my tuition/books. I just didn't have the need-based aid that covered most of my living expenses. My first year I borrowed a lot because I got suckered into the living in the dorms is important, my second year I actually had more aid/scholarships than my total cost (including living expenses). Third and fourth year I lost about $6,000 in need-based aid while the cost went up significantly at the same time so I had to borrow some for my last two years.
Wanting to appear more prestigious is the result of wanting to compete with prestigious schools for high quality students. That's exactly my point. But, I disagree about the "honda civic marked up to an S-Class". Lehigh offers a ton of things - whether one believes it is worth it or not is another story. But schools are building new libraries, new dorms, new gyms, adding sports programs, adding departments, adding research facilities, adding technology to campus, etc., all to market themselves to students. I could say Penn State Worthington offers a reasonably good education at a fraction of the price, but it's got all the bells and whistles stripped. Plus, top ranked schools often have more PhD professors, lower faculty:student ratios, etc.
Having a high price tag and offering a huge discount is a selling tactic used by many. One that comes to mind immediately is Jos. A. Bank suits. They seem to have a 2 or 3 for the price of 1 sale year round. When Lehigh or RPI have a high price tag but offer a very common discount to students, it's to get them to choose Lehigh over another school. If you're not offered a discount, then Lehigh doesn't really want to try and win you. But, if you'll pay the full price, they're not really going to object. So i think we're on mostly the same page.
I think there are valid reasons that costs of colleges have gone up, and there are also some spending that is really not necessary, but it does help "sell" the school. Lehigh was doing constant construction while i was there because their campus was becoming out-dated. If they wanted to continue competing for students in that "Top 50 Colleges" bracket - they had to expand dorms, modernize them, and bring the campus into the 21st century.
It's just one example, but it's one that I'm personally familiar with.
The education at prestige schools doesn't have to be better per se. The advantage is in the networking. If you go to law school at Stanford or Yale or Harvard (or various others) you will be rubbing shoulders with children of very well connected people and you will tend to get the best clerkships, jobs at the best law firms, and so forth.
I myself attended state universities for both undergraduate and graduate school, so I am not speaking from personal experience, but I have some highly placed and well connected cousins who explained all that to me.
I cannot agree with this enough. The main "value" in attending Lehigh, in my opinion, was the strong Career Services department at Lehigh and the ability of the school to foster an active "alumni network". They have frequent social events in various parts of the country for alumni to get together and network. Now, the same can be said for plenty of other schools. Penn State has a strong alumni network also. Which i think is a big advantage of that school.
I went to a state college right after high school. Dropped out twice (because I've made a lot of bad decisions), finally graduated after transferring twice and having three different majors over fifteen years (hello again, decision-making disorder).
I found what I love to do, but in the meantime we were forced to move because our housing was tied to my partner's job. Job went away, so did the 2BR ranch. Gave up my dreams and we moved to western NC from the Philadelphia area because my family would not take us in, while his would.
So, here we are. Late 30s, living with his folks, he's working PT retail because that's all he could find, and I'm still looking for ANYTHING because now I'm an over-educated Yankee in the mountains who has $68K in student loans hanging over her head. Temp jobs don't last and nobody else is responding to my applications, cover letters and resumes. Even chains I used to work for won't re-hire me.
Yeah. Boomerang kid and scared to death. I can't afford to move "where the jobs are" because we spent our tiny savings in our move south. I'm forever grateful to his folks for taking us in, but always feel like a burden on them because I'm having such a hard time finding work.
/vent
You may even have to take a personal loan to get out or put it all on credit cards. I'm from the general area and there is no hope there.
there'es not many towns smaller than where I grew up. if a comp sci major was silly enough to move back there and hope to find a job, they only have themselves to blame.
How do you relocate without money? Let's say rent is $1000 (on the very low end for any city). You need $1000 plus the $1000 deposit to relocate. Then another $1000 to pay the next month's rent because you probably won't get a job within a month. Then another $500 or so for utilities. That's $3500. Where is that money supposed to come from?
How do you relocate without money? Let's say rent is $1000 (on the very low end for any city). You need $1000 plus the $1000 deposit to relocate. Then another $1000 to pay the next month's rent because you probably won't get a job within a month. Then another $500 or so for utilities. That's $3500. Where is that money supposed to come from?
Trees or at least that is what some people would make you believe. The fact is the $3500 is in the least. Someone in that positron also needs $200 for food and $25/300 for transit (let's assume gas.) That makes it $4500 to start to live without tv. Money doesn't grow on trees. Perhaps they don't have that money and their parents don't have enough to lend that much and there isn't enough in their own account.
How do you relocate without money? Let's say rent is $1000 (on the very low end for any city). You need $1000 plus the $1000 deposit to relocate. Then another $1000 to pay the next month's rent because you probably won't get a job within a month. Then another $500 or so for utilities. That's $3500. Where is that money supposed to come from?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk
Trees or at least that is what some people would make you believe. The fact is the $3500 is in the least. Someone in that positron also needs $200 for food and $25/300 for transit (let's assume gas.) That makes it $4500 to start to live without tv. Money doesn't grow on trees. Perhaps they don't have that money and their parents don't have enough to lend that much and there isn't enough in their own account.
There was a thread on moving to a new area before you had a job lined up. Quite some interesting posts there. I'm sure there were plenty others before it. AFAIK, some people could afford to do this, but they either have $$ saved up, or find a friend or family member to live with until they find a job and can get their own place. Other people, not so much, and there are some tips on how to make this work.
While there's still some discrimination in hiring out-of-staters, IMO and for me anyways, it's too much of a crapshoot to move without having income lined up. If nothing else, a LL wants to see you'll have income to pay the rent.
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