Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Well said. In addition, they forget that we worked for them.
Part of my job entailed making sure that contracts were solicited and awarded in a fair process to protect you from corrupt politicians, and part of THAT entailed going in and negotiating down prices as much as possible. I saved you more money by what I did than I will ever collect in my pension. You're welcome.
Perhaps you should get some kind of special award. You know, for doing your job.
Instead of complaining about private companies who scrooed their workers by declaring bankruptcy then re-emerging--but not before they jettisoned their retirees along with promised pension and health benefits--the usual suspects have public pensions in their sights. Again.
1. If you wanted a government pension, you should have taken a government--local, municipal, state, federal-- job. If you didn't, kwitcherbeefin'.
2. Public employees and retirees pay taxes, too.
3. Both my husband and I were public employees who are now retired--and we each enjoy a generous pension. Without guilt.
Enough with the pension envy!
Oh, really?
And just WHAT kinds of govt jobs do y'all think WE ALL can get.
And if y'all pay those taxes, let YOUR TAXES COVER YOUR PENSIONS LOSSES. NOT MINE.
Out of the other side of manys mouths is "THE GOV'T IS TOO BIG" and "REDUCE GOV'T SIZE" And "KEEP GOV'T OUT OF MY LIFE".
You cant have it ALL ways. You cant have us all working for fed, state, local governments and collecting massive pensions. Theyll crash for sure.
Pensions, like SS, was to be ONE THIRD of the ",tripod" or ",3 legged stool fir retirement funding. The 3rd leg is to be personal savings. On that 3 legged stool, It was NOT to be a FULL 90% OF YOUR highest working years pay. Cut it in HALF, and you still have more than one third of that 3 legged stool for them. At MOST it should be half what the AVERAGE pay is that they earned over their Gov't working career.
Government workers already earn ( generally, at least in ky area) MOTE than tge workers who support them.
Im sorry it is not right nor fair nor good nor appropriate for a person who NEVER yad a pension to pay extra taxes to cover thise who got one.
Its the SAME THING EVERY ONE on here bemoans about WELFARE recipients..."WHY SHOULD I PAY FOR SOMEONE ELSE TO LIVE"???!!! Especially since once they are no longer working while collecting, they really are no different than welfare peopke who have their habds out too.
Its like saying "Everyone should be a doctor" and ",earn high wages". Not everyone can work as a doctor ( and remember: fully ONE HALF OF ALL DOCTORS GRADUATED IN THE BOTTOM HALF OF THEIR CLASS...WHICH WOULD YOU HAVE WORKING ON YOU? JUST PASSED OR VALEDICTORIAN??)
IF the pension funds fail, regardless of public or private or profit sharing, NO ONE WHO DID NOT GET NOR IS ENTITLED TO THAT PIECE OF THE PIE SHOULD HAVE TO BAIL THEM OUT.
Not only that, but those who get pensions are generally more likely to be earning more than those who have no pensions. If it was the other way around, and only low income people had pensions, you betcha you as a higher paid employee, regardless of employer, would s**** the loudest!
No, my dollars hard earned ( i still do work while on SSDI) should NOT BE going to subsidize the wealthy whose pension benefits fail. After all, you have a say in how your pensions are run. I dont. And your unions, if you have one, have an even bigger say.
Public govt welfare is no different than corporate welfare no different than "my baby daddy" welfare.
Its a BIG switch, instead of the "HAVES" BEFFIN' about paying for the benefits the HAVE NOTS get, they now expect the HAVE NOTS TO SUPPORT THE HAVES IN older age, all the while wanting to do away with thise benefits!!
Regardless of whether its a private to-big-to-fail company or public sector job, ultimately it will come down to this:
A) Those who HAVE pensions will say YES, the taxpayers should bail out their failed pensions, its called "self preservation ";
B) those who don't have pensions will say NO they should not not be taxed to cover the failed pensions.
Ultimately its a stale argument.
And once again it will happen, and tax those with lower incomes to support the more wealthy.
Fleece the poor masses (people) for the good of the few wealthy.
Especially since one report i read stated pensiobs are disappearing at a rate of about 10,000 a day for workers who DID have a pension.
Thise who HAVE pensions elect leaders to their unions to negotiate their pension. Perhaps its time they start voting for a person to be sure their pension is sound and secure.
Not all public sector pensions are the same. Some public employees paid very little into their pension and the funding was mostly by the government. In addition to their pension the government had to contributed the employer contribution to Social Security. Others public employees paid into a pension instead of contributing to Social Security and therefore are not eligible to receive SS benefits. That is the case with teachers in CT. The state was supposed to contribute their portion to the pension and they did not and in some cases actually borrowed from the pension instead. The government inaccurately estimated returns on pension investments for many years and under estimating the size of contributions required by the government to fully fund the pension liabilities.
Most governments have changed pension plans to better reflect contributions for more recent employees and some have moved over to a 401k/403b plan instead. Plans like the teachers in CT participate in would require changes in the Windfall Elimination Provision for Social Security and a plan to shift workers to SS involving some type of SS for years worked. In the case of teachers, many younger ones would welcome a change to the way their pension is constructed because under the current structure many younger people who change jobs over their career would end up with neither an eligible pension nor their full SS earnings (reduced by 40% due to WEP).
I didn't suggest a cut of benefits to current retirees, although that is an excellent idea for retirees collecting excess pension benefits.
And who determines that? You?
No sorry it doesn’t work that way. If you work somewhere and made that job a career and a certain benefit was implemented/offered and it’s your right to have that benefit. Just because some people don’t like it doesn’t mean it should be taken away.
Pensions, like SS, was to be ONE THIRD of the ",tripod" or ",3 legged stool fir retirement funding. The 3rd leg is to be personal savings. On that 3 legged stool, It was NOT to be a FULL 90% OF YOUR highest working years pay. Cut it in HALF, and you still have more than one third of that 3 legged stool for them. At MOST it should be half what the AVERAGE pay is that they earned over their Gov't working career.
That is silly. Nobody ever said that the three income streams had to be identical. Using your logic, if I save a lot of money, my SS and pension should be increased to match, or my savings should be confiscated in order to reduce the draw on them to be equal to SS or pension.
Absurd, unworkable, and not what was meant when the concept of diversified income in retirement was originally envisioned.
Going back to the concept of taxing people with pensions, let recognize that pension income is taxable, so people with pensions are contributing back to support themselves and others. People with high pensions are paying more, as they will be in a higher tax bracket.
The fact that what some people want to happen is actually happening will not make anybody change their mind of course, as this is really an expression of misplaced rage against government workers. People want to be angry, so little things like facts will not matter.
Hey, why not cut SS in half? Just cuz we promised it and people planned their retirement around the promised benefit doesn't mean we shouldn't cut em off at the knees right?
That is silly. Nobody ever said that the three income streams had to be identical. Using your logic, if I save a lot of money, my SS and pension should be increased to match, or my savings should be confiscated in order to reduce the draw on them to be equal to SS or pension.
Absurd, unworkable, and not what was meant when the concept of diversified income in retirement was originally envisioned.
Going back to the concept of taxing people with pensions, let recognize that pension income is taxable, so people with pensions are contributing back to support themselves and others. People with high pensions are paying more, as they will be in a higher tax bracket.
The fact that what some people want to happen is actually happening will not make anybody change their mind of course, as this is really an expression of misplaced rage against government workers. People want to be angry, so little things like facts will not matter.
Not only are pensions taxable, in my case my contribution was after tax for many years, they are like mine and taxable when I collect it. And I had a pension deduction from every single paycheck for thirty one years. It started out at 2% and ended at 7%. The last few years almost 1/3 of that 7% was not credited to the pension system but to Maryland's General Fund budget.
In addition, my Social Security benefit is also subject to federal income tax due to the "generosity" of my pension.
[T]hose who don't have pensions will say NO they should not not be taxed to cover the failed pensions.
...
And once again it will happen, and tax those with lower incomes to support the more wealthy.
Fleece the poor masses (people) for the good of the few wealthy.
Exactly, and this summarizes the thread nicely.
As time goes on, the working classes are being required to pay heavy taxes to support government retirees pensions. It is not politically sustainable, and it is not financially sustainable.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
by what I did than I will ever collect in my pension. You're welcome.
