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Where is your evidence that welfare is preventing people from wanting to work?
Not sure whom this is addressed to, but I'll pipe up anyway.
There is no assumption about welfare people wanting to work or not. Like non-welfare people, I'm sure some want to work and some don't. In the program, to get more than the minimum benefit, they have to work. I'm expecting that most would want more than the minimum benefit and decide to work, whether it's something they want to do or not.
And no program of any kind can be 100% successful. If this can put 3/4 of the non-working welfare population in social jobs, that would be a success rate that any program would be proud of.
About transportation for job training, I don't believe the latter is necessary because this isn't training: it's getting up, having breakfast, and going to work. However, the bus, walk, subway, etc.
Job training in the US, despite individual success stories, does not have much to show for itself overall. Training programs are created by legislation willy-nilly, mostly for political benefit. Even after they fail to produce, they continue. So you have all these zombie training programs hanging around which mostly benefit the people who run them. Job training is a whole other area of social policy that is ripe for true change.
I'd again mention the apprenticeship programs Germany has for kids who are not going to college. They turn out world class machinists, bakers, textile workers, etc. The quality of these workers is so high that can compete successfully against even the lowest wage countries. There is no reason that almost any occupation could not be the focus of an apprenticeship program.
BMW started one in South Carolina because they couldn't find enough qualified people for their factory there. They were warned by other companies about unions (for some reason, American apprenticeship programs bring up the topic of unions, I don't know why), but they went ahead anyway and it's working OK.
Nearly all US welfare programs already have some form of work requirement for the able-bodied who are not caregivers for very young or very old dependents. Apparently, this is a little-known fact.
Well, there's a ton of little known facts for those who fail to read and research the issues, but they seem to find time to whine on the various boards about things they don't/can't understand. This has become a real problem in the American political polemics that dominate the airwaves, a lot of the web, newspapers, and general discourse. Most of the duds have never heard of TANF and the significance of the "T" in that acronym, although most states have limited their assistance to the poor the onslaught of criticism keeps on coming at the rate it did prior to reforms made in the Clinton years.
As a long time Public Welfare employee I feel that I can chime in on this topic and clear a few things up.
First, we consider welfare to be cash, food stamps (Now SNAP) and Medicaid. It is ALL welfare. Other welfare benefits include free or subsidized housing, free or subsidized childcare, energy assistance and yes now even cell phones. If the government is giving you a free benefit, you are on welfare.
Second, the link about TANF being limited...well it looks that way on paper but in reality certain states, such as PA, really have no time limit. There are about 50 exemptions and loopholes so people are receiving way more than the 5 years that this bill was supposed to limit TANF to.
Third, I agree that welfare clients need to work...whether it is volunteer work or just something. But it would be a logistical nightmare. I wish this country could figure it out, but I don't have much confidence in us anymore...
They already cut our staff every year and now we would need people to oversee these "employees" and enforce the work requirement. Apparently it is less expensive for the state to hand out millions in food stamps per month (and medicaid! medicaid is the most expensive program by FAR) instead of hire more of us or pump money into training these people. We used to have an ETP program (Employment and Training Program) but guess what?...it was cut too...
Also a lot of these families on welfare have multiple children and they would need child care to work. Then you have the people who are too disabled to work or whatever.
Personally it makes me sick to walk around town on my lunch break and see the able bodied people playing basketball in the park, strolling around in their pj's at noon, carting their ten kids around all wearing way nicer clothes than my kids wore, talking on their iPhones etc. Mind you these are the same people who were just in my office earlier crying that they were too disabled to work, had no food in their house, wah, wah, wah. Meanwhile the streets are littered with garbage and all that...We refer the cases to fraud investigation but 9/10 times the case is thrown out due to some crap technicality. The system is sickening, truly. People who have not had an insiders view to it would be truly surprised and disheartened to see the level of fraud and abuse that goes on. You would be disgusted to see your tax dollars "at work". People have made welfare a lifestyle, we have generations of families on the dole and they don't seem to know about or aspire to a different life. So that all being said..YES I believe in a work requirement for welfare clients...even 10 hours per week, something!! I just know our government can't do anything without some cluster-eff of a convoluted process.
I don't have a problem with the concept of workfare. Putting in X hours a week for X dollars. Seems fair and there is something just about everyone can do. Even many of the disabled.
Living on the dole can become a habit/lifestyle. Years ago I knew a young woman who was the first in several generations of her family to NOT receive some kind of government benefits. Today I know several people who are very legitimately on disability or some kind of welfare. Guess what? These folks spend more in time and energy looking for work under the table than most do who work full time. Think it would be easier/better for these folks to just get a job and go off the dole? No, because the system holds them hostage. Even a minimum wage legitimate job throws them off benefits. Even a part time minimum wage job will do it.
It's all about the healthcare. Most of us can agree what we pay for healthcare is not affordable. Think for a minute what your premiums would be as a person with a disability or if you had a couple small children. As soon as these folks get a job, they lose their healthcare and there is almost zero chance the job they get will be full time, with benefits, at a living wage.
Trash talk comes easy but stop for just a minute and put yourself in their position. You are a single mom of a 4yo with cystic fibrosis. Your child's medical necessities are sometimes 4 or 5K per month. Paid by medicaid. Can you take a full time job at McDonald's and lose your healthcare? Not just no, but hell no! Then take it a step further. You fall madly in love with a wonderful man who makes 30K per year and want to get married and form a traditional family unit. Can you get married? No. You would lose your benefits and your child's healthcare COULD cost more than BOTH of you make per year.
Healthcare is the bugaboo. And Obamacare didn't fix the problem for the low wage worker. Even with subsidies there is nothing for them. Many of the 'affordable' options have deductibles of 4 to 6K and folks working at McDonald's rarely have that kind of cash.
Personally it makes me sick to walk around town on my lunch break and see the able bodied people playing basketball in the park, strolling around in their pj's at noon, carting their ten kids around all wearing way nicer clothes than my kids wore, talking on their iPhones etc. Mind you these are the same people who were just in my office earlier crying that they were too disabled to work, had no food in their house, wah, wah, wah. Meanwhile the streets are littered with garbage and all that...We refer the cases to fraud investigation but 9/10 times the case is thrown out due to some crap technicality. The system is sickening, truly. People who have not had an insiders view to it would be truly surprised and disheartened to see the level of fraud and abuse that goes on. You would be disgusted to see your tax dollars "at work". People have made welfare a lifestyle, we have generations of families on the dole and they don't seem to know about or aspire to a different life. So that all being said..YES I believe in a work requirement for welfare clients...even 10 hours per week, something!! I just know our government can't do anything without some cluster-eff of a convoluted process.
I suffer from a neurological disorder so painful that I'm often bedridden a good portion of my day. Sometimes the meds work - sometimes they don't. The pain makes my life a living hell. In fact, I just came down from a 10 day streak of non-stop pain. I mean real pain ... not a little ache or sting.
What sickens me is how I've been denied disability twice - because the system is almost designed to screw over honest people while handing all the benefits to the fraudsters. The government has NO ONE else to blame but itself. One thing I've learned damn quickly is that, if you want government assistance, especially disability, you have to lie your ass right off your legs and onto the floor. Because if you tell the truth, you'll be shown the door.
That's why there is so much fraud and abuse ... the system allows dishonest people to THRIVE. Professional liars and thieves can breeze through the system and collect their checks with ease. It's people like me who go into the system thinking, "I really AM disabled so there's no reason not to tell the truth" who end up getting a shaft so far up the butt that that we're choking on it.
I'm sick of navigating a system that is biased against me. Guilty until proven innocent. I'm tired of the sneaky tricks, the loaded questions, the disability doctors who try to deceive you into admitting some tiny little fact that instantly disqualifies you.
Here's one of my favorites: "Can you sit for four hours?" Yeah, seems innocuous enough. Most people can sit for four hours so they'll naively say they can. Oops. Now the government will assume you can work part time and deny your claim. They don't ask honest and pertinent questions like, "Can you sit for four hours while performing a task - and can you maintain a predictable schedule each and every week?" They don't ask questions like, "Would any of your current medications make it difficult or impossible to perform work-related tasks or be a reliable employee?"
They'll send you questionaires with questions like, "Can you cook your own meals?" Well, uh, if by cooking you mean putting something in the microwave, yes. I suppose if I was hungry enough I could endure the pain long enough to stand at the counter and make food. BUT ... if you answer yes, they'll assume you can go work at a restaurant. Because in their eyes, spending 5 minutes waiting for the microwave once or twice a day is the same thing as being able to cook meals 8 to 10 hours per day, every day, standing on your feet. If you can brush your teeth for 3 minutes, it means you can hold a pen all day long and perform clerical tasks.
These cloying little questions they ask that trip up honest people who don't know how to game the system, this causes the truly disabled to suffer in poverty and the fear of becoming homeless while the perfectly healthy waltz around with their monthly disability check, playing hoops in the playground, hiking, working on their roofs, traveling, and having a life-long vacation on money that I could really use!
As far as welfare being connected to work ... well, sorry, but those of us who really are disabled and who are fighting the system which often takes years, we tend to rely on welfare, especially Medicaid, to stay alive. We aren't actually classified as "officially" disabled yet, and we can't just up and go to work in order to keep benefits while the on-going unfair battle with the government continues - and the inevitable bout with disability lawyers who enjoy sitting on your case for as long as possible to maximize your disability backpay and hence their own paychecks.
Location: Sodo Sopa at The Villas above Kenny' s House.
2,492 posts, read 3,030,800 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yellowsnow
I don't have a problem with the concept of workfare. Putting in X hours a week for X dollars. Seems fair and there is something just about everyone can do. Even many of the disabled.
Living on the dole can become a habit/lifestyle. Years ago I knew a young woman who was the first in several generations of her family to NOT receive some kind of government benefits. Today I know several people who are very legitimately on disability or some kind of welfare. Guess what? These folks spend more in time and energy looking for work under the table than most do who work full time. Think it would be easier/better for these folks to just get a job and go off the dole? No, because the system holds them hostage. Even a minimum wage legitimate job throws them off benefits. Even a part time minimum wage job will do it.
It's all about the healthcare. Most of us can agree what we pay for healthcare is not affordable. Think for a minute what your premiums would be as a person with a disability or if you had a couple small children. As soon as these folks get a job, they lose their healthcare and there is almost zero chance the job they get will be full time, with benefits, at a living wage.
Trash talk comes easy but stop for just a minute and put yourself in their position. You are a single mom of a 4yo with cystic fibrosis. Your child's medical necessities are sometimes 4 or 5K per month. Paid by medicaid. Can you take a full time job at McDonald's and lose your healthcare? Not just no, but hell no! Then take it a step further. You fall madly in love with a wonderful man who makes 30K per year and want to get married and form a traditional family unit. Can you get married? No. You would lose your benefits and your child's healthcare COULD cost more than BOTH of you make per year.
Healthcare is the bugaboo. And Obamacare didn't fix the problem for the low wage worker. Even with subsidies there is nothing for them. Many of the 'affordable' options have deductibles of 4 to 6K and folks working at McDonald's rarely have that kind of cash.
Spot on...... Wish I could rep this more. I am a single mother caught in this trap.I do not want to go into specifics but this is true to life. The biggest problem with welfare in the US is people are rewarded more the less they do. In most cases a mother is better off financially with welfare programs unless she makes above $20 hr in a low COL area. The incentive to work is diminished wether it morally should be.
Now at least I can honestly say we will not go Hungry.
Last edited by gwynedd1; 11-12-2014 at 04:02 PM..
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