Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I can't imagine paying for 4 years of college and making less than $40K. Why bother, when there are many jobs out there where you don't have to wrack up college debt, and start off making double that?
How many actual jobs are there that pay 80K w/o college? 48% of Americans earn less than 25K. 75% of Americans earn less than 50K. There are a few specialized professions that earn high salaries, but they tend to be unionized, and require knowing someone in the business to support you, and get you into an apprenticeship situation. Those jobs do exist, but there aren't enough of them to be a real solution to the problem of the disappearing middle class, and the working class becoming the working poor situation that millennials face.
I can't imagine paying for 4 years of college and making less than $40K. Why bother, when there are many jobs out there where you don't have to wrack up college debt, and start off making double that?
There are multiple reasons. Even with 20-20 hindsight, I personally would have done things exactly the same way -- even if school cost $200K and I only had a $30K job waiting for me at the end.
Why? The college experience was one of the best times of my life. Not in the Animal House, Revenge of the Nerds sort of way that people who hate college always dismiss it as. I learned more in four years than I have in the following decades. I also met my wife there. And I'm still close with the group of friends I had at school. And here's the thing: All of us are successful. Some of us are financially successful. But all of us are "I have a great career and a comfortable life that I enjoy" successful. And then there's the "college network." If one of those circle of friends needed a hand I would bend over backwards to make something happen -- and they'd do the same.
Take my group of high-school peers and the success rate is a smaller fraction. Many of those people work menial jobs, never left home, their life pretty-much sucks. And sure, some of those guys made it without school. And some people come to Las Vegas and win big at the tables, too. It's more of a crap shoot without the education and more of a sure thing with.
Another reason is the salary ceiling. There aren't many high-paying careers out there for someone without a degree. Sales comes instantly to mind. Nobody cares about education if the salesperson can close. Trades have a salary ceiling. There are only so many hours in a day for a tradesperson to work. The tradesperson can eventually start their own business, hire employees and break the salary ceiling. But again, the success percentage goes down.
EDIT -
Quote:
Originally Posted by detshen
How many actual jobs are there that pay 80K w/o college?
I understand what you're saying, I guess I was just speaking from personal experience. I hear so many people complaining about not making enough money, and having to pay back all of their student loans. I just look at that scenario and don't understand it. I don't see the ROI spending $100K, or whatever college costs, and then getting a job making $30K, with the hopes of making $50K in X amount of years.
I DO understand college from the technical standpoint. My wife is currently in nursing school. She pays very little to attend, as it is a community college, and the starting pay for nurses is such that the ROI is there. Nursing is something for which college is a necessity. For me, I chose sales, a career where I can make what a doctor makes, while sitting in my pajamas at home. Although, truthfully, I would much rather do what Scoop does for a living, as I would find that more enjoyable. I just can't start over at this point in my life.
I've changed careers three times now. One of the things I learned in school was how do decide what I want, and then systematically obtain it. My current job is merely OK. My last job was part of an internet website called "dreamjobs.com" (website now dead). Professionals took two weeks off, paid me a lot of money, just so they could come to my "office" and do my "job" with me mentoring for two weeks.
THAT was a fun job. It's what I plan to do again when I leave this town.
Education is not about ROI. Training is about ROI. Education is investing in oneself. I have attended school regularly for decades now. Buy a telescope? Take another astronomy class. Want to change careers again? Take some classes for that. Going to wine country on vacation? Take a wine appreciation class. I think I'll start a business next so I'll get an MBA at UNLV. Why not?
I've changed careers three times now. One of the things I learned in school was how do decide what I want, and then systematically obtain it. My current job is merely OK. My last job was part of an internet website called "dreamjobs.com" (website now dead). Professionals took two weeks off, paid me a lot of money, just so they could come to my "office" and do my "job" with me mentoring for two weeks.
THAT was a fun job. It's what I plan to do again when I leave this town.
Education is not about ROI. Training is about ROI. Education is investing in oneself. I have attended school regularly for decades now. Buy a telescope? Take another astronomy class. Want to change careers again? Take some classes for that. Going to wine country on vacation? Take a wine appreciation class. I think I'll start a business next so I'll get an MBA at UNLV. Why not?
It sounds like you don't stick with anything very long to be changing careers over and over. Taking "feel-good" classes is for when you have a solid career that you are committed to keeping.
It sounds like you don't stick with anything very long to be changing careers over and over. Taking "feel-good" classes is for when you have a solid career that you are committed to keeping.
Changing careers puts me closer to my ultimate goal. As far as I'm concerned the "failures" in life work the same job forever and then settle into a retirement rut. The best thing I ever did was quit the professional world for my first career change. This current job is related to my last job, but not the same. Later, I plan to merge these two into my own business which I'll enjoy doing for as long as I'm able-bodied.
Beats punching a clock and waiting for Social Security to kick in. I have to plan as if there is nothing waiting for me in retirement that I don't put in place myself. (And even then, I cannot 100% count on that.) I have set up life so that it would take an event of the magnitude of the French Revolution to upset it. And even if that happens, I have an exit strategy.
Taking classes (both of the feel-good variety and the technical variety) is one of the things that makes life worth living. Pity more people don't do it.
[quote=scottkuzminski;37886910]That is exactly how it was in the little suburb of Chicago, Dolton, I grew up in.....
It was working class, and most parents worked at factories and such....to make a specific point, my neighbor worked at SEARS in the catalog department, in shipping and receiving, and bought a 3-bedroom tri-level, while the wife stayed at home as a homemaker(raised 4 kids as well)......try imaging that happening now...you would struggle to rent an apartment now, even with the wife working, if you were in retail now...
Here is a video of my town growing up.....keep in mind this was a factory town, and look how prosperous it was..
[snip video]
So who lives in Dolton now? The houses are exactly the same. However, the people look different. They're almost entirely black. Look how prosperous black people have become! Meanwhile, what happened to the whites? I guess they moved somewhere else. You haven't provided any evidence that people have gotten richer or poorer in general, just that working-class Dolton, Illinois used to be somewhat nice. I am familiar with Dolton and it still is a pleasant working-class community. It is not a slum at all. I don't know what the residents do for a living but they sure aren't scrounging for food out of dumpsters.
I am often ashamed of my generation. I'm a 27 year old, made the sensible decision to go to a state school instead of going into crazy debt at a private school, got a business degree, worked my ass off in sales, actually made a plan of where I wanted to get. Oh and I live below my means. This is key. A degree doesn't entitle you to anything.
Few people my age actually look and say "What job do I want?" And then ask "What steps do I need to take to get there?" Everyone I know thinks six figure jobs fall out of the sky. They think just applying to 100 jobs on careerbuilder is a good strategy. It takes an incredible amount of work, the willingness to move, and of course, a bit of luck.
But I sure as hell am not the smartest guy in the world.. hell I definitely don't work the hardest. Its a game, figure out how its played. Quit complaining about it. Life isn't fair and it never will be.
I am often ashamed of my generation. I'm a 27 year old, made the sensible decision to go to a state school instead of going into crazy debt at a private school, got a business degree, worked my ass off in sales, actually made a plan of where I wanted to get. Oh and I live below my means. This is key. A degree doesn't entitle you to anything.
Few people my age actually look and say "What job do I want?" And then ask "What steps do I need to take to get there?" Everyone I know thinks six figure jobs fall out of the sky. They think just applying to 100 jobs on careerbuilder is a good strategy. It takes an incredible amount of work, the willingness to move, and of course, a bit of luck.
But I sure as hell am not the smartest guy in the world.. hell I definitely don't work the hardest. Its a game, figure out how its played. Quit complaining about it. Life isn't fair and it never will be.
Hey, how did u make it in sales?
I work in education and want to get into sales.
It's overwhelming just looking online at jobs and the literally hundreds of sales jobs I see, yet I dont know what type of sales I'd be good at. I have a degree in marketing and went into education. FML.
Now, I want sales to maximize my earning potential. I just dont know how to break into the field with all my work experience being in education.
Hey, how did u make it in sales?
I work in education and want to get into sales.
It's overwhelming just looking online at jobs and the literally hundreds of sales jobs I see, yet I dont know what type of sales I'd be good at. I have a degree in marketing and went into education. FML.
Now, I want sales to maximize my earning potential. I just dont know how to break into the field with all my work experience being in education.
My process was this:
What jobs pay the most in sales: (Money was a motivator for me, it may not be for you): Computer Software/Hardware
How do I get into this industry: B2B sales experience at Cintas, Aramark, ADP, Ricoh, and a handful of others.
How do I get a job with one of those companies?: Go sell telco, copiers or yellow pages (any very entry level b2b will work)
So I networked and got a job selling telcom, killed my quotas (in that world it's pretty much a numbers game, you dont need to be very good just call on as many people as you can).
After I could build a decent whats called brag book, I interviewed at Cintas, ADP, and Aramark.
Took the job with Cintas, but had an offer from ADP.
Again, work hard, make Presidents Club, and at the point I was headhunted and could pretty much name where I wanted to work.
I now work in the computer software industry (i'll leave the company out for my own privacy reasons), and I make well over six figures.
I did this in 6 years. I had a 2.9 GPA from a state school in Business Administration.
Anyone can accomplish this. I am sure you can! Feel free to DM, always happy to help someone out.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
