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Old 08-06-2017, 08:20 PM
 
33,016 posts, read 27,451,622 times
Reputation: 9074

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rruff View Post
Accounting won't solve anything. Frankly I'm not worried about the lack of or cost of housing. It's perfectly normal for supply and demand to cause skyrocketing rents in desirable areas. The housing and labor markets *will* solve this naturally. The solution will not however result in everyone being able to afford to live there. Many will have to....:

MOVE!

If there weren't affordable places all over the country, then there'd be a legit reason to complain. But it isn't bad at all if you get out of the fashionable cities.

The important issue is growing income and wealth disparity. A group that is able to live off investments, owns most of everything, has considerable political pull, etc. While people who have to work for a living get a smaller piece of the pie. Fix that and let rents take care of themselves.

First movers shouldn't have to move again.
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Old 08-06-2017, 08:25 PM
 
33,016 posts, read 27,451,622 times
Reputation: 9074
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
Renters Insurance is your friend... sure came through for my friends in spades... paid for emergency shelter and replaced what they lost... he keeps meticulous records and they were newly weds... so lots of new things and the wedding registry was invaluable.

I agree with Larry and Old Trader because I see people start out behind the eight ball... don't speak the language, come here with nothing more than a dream and make it...

Most start a small business... many in the trades... tile setter, landscaper... some open small takeout restaurants... the thing is how do they succeed when those far better off and born here don't?

The answer is they have a fire in their belly and willing to put in the 80 hours to get going for a payoff years down the road.

It could simply be expectations and unwillingness to do what is necessary... the military provided excellent benefits... buy the least expensive house on the MLS and make it yours... buy a duplex or triplex and live in the smallest unit...

After buying the least expensive single family home (Cottage) I bought a duplex... 3 bedroom house with a small cottage in back... moved into the cottage.

While my renters were driving new cars... even those on Section 8 I drove the same $800 Plymouth for 20+ years... imagine driving an $800 car for 20 years... all I can say is I saved a bundle and only once did it quit... timing chain which $40 on parts and a morning of my time cured... AAA towed me home.

It is ironic that just a few years ago the news stories were about the glut of housing left abandoned in the wake of the meltdown... what a difference 5 years makes.

I was driving a clunker, and unable to buy into any of the so-called housing crises - S&L, bubble burst, etc. Frugality isn't everything.
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Old 08-07-2017, 04:38 AM
 
Location: Myrtle Creek, Oregon
15,293 posts, read 17,678,616 times
Reputation: 25236
Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt View Post
Try doing THAT when you rent.
I take it you have never heard of a rent party.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rent_party
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Old 08-07-2017, 04:43 AM
 
Location: Myrtle Creek, Oregon
15,293 posts, read 17,678,616 times
Reputation: 25236
Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt View Post
I was driving a clunker, and unable to buy into any of the so-called housing crises - S&L, bubble burst, etc. Frugality isn't everything.
So get ready for the next one. I wanted to invest in 1982 so bad my teeth hurt, but didn't have two nickels to rub together. I learned my lesson. Housing prices dropped 50% and the Dow bottomed around 800. Arguably, it was a worse recession than the one we just had. Unemployment was much higher.

One thing you can count on is that someday the economy will take a bigger dump than anyone thought possible. There's no way to tell when, just that it will happen. Develop a plan to take advantage of it.
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Old 08-07-2017, 05:02 AM
 
Location: Myrtle Creek, Oregon
15,293 posts, read 17,678,616 times
Reputation: 25236
Quote:
Originally Posted by rruff View Post
The fact remains that better behavior won't solve the problem, if the problem is increasing real COL for those in the bottom half of the socio-economic scale.
The majority of people are so lazy they are worthless. They want to enjoy a standard of living that is not supported by their income. Food is cheaper than it ever has been. An individual needs 150 square feet of living space. It's not the cost of living that is inflating, it's the standard of living. Four people can share a 600 square foot apartment. If they want something to drink, they can drink water. If they want to go somewhere they can walk. Clothes come from thrift stores. I can introduce you to any number of Mexican immigrants who got their start that way, and they ended up better off for it.
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Old 08-07-2017, 05:08 AM
 
Location: Myrtle Creek, Oregon
15,293 posts, read 17,678,616 times
Reputation: 25236
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
It could just be people expect more and are not willing to accept less.

One can almost always rent in a better area than it would cost to buy.

Only go back 7 years and an entire segment of the population loudly declared it was done with owning and thirty year mortgages...

My own take is people are more short sighted than ever...

I posted pictures of my first "House" here and many simply did not believe it and my own family thought I had just flushed my life savings... so I had more than enough incentive to prove everyone wrong.

In 2012 I posted over 100 homes on the Oakland MLS advertised under 150k...
The first home my wife and I bought was not habitable. We lived in a travel trailer while I gutted the house, replaced the wiring and plumbing, and refinished the interior. It's called sweat equity. For 6 years we didn't own a TV. I could say that we didn't have time to watch TV, but the truth is there was no place to put one in the dinky travel trailer we were living in. BTW, we tripled our money in 6 years, which gave us the down payment on a home we actually could live in.
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Old 08-07-2017, 06:12 AM
 
4,224 posts, read 3,016,633 times
Reputation: 3812
Quote:
Originally Posted by psikeyhackr View Post
Our concepts of land ownership come from European culture.
Concepts, maybe, but the actual practices, definitely not.
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Old 08-07-2017, 06:16 AM
 
4,224 posts, read 3,016,633 times
Reputation: 3812
Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt View Post
Housing on Central Park West costs an two arms and a leg; can you imagine what inside-the-park housing could cost?
LOL! The green-space is what drives market values. If there were construction in the park, markets for it and for surrounding areas would tumble back into mundane urban ordinariness.
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Old 08-07-2017, 10:40 AM
 
28,115 posts, read 63,659,938 times
Reputation: 23268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Caldwell View Post
The first home my wife and I bought was not habitable. We lived in a travel trailer while I gutted the house, replaced the wiring and plumbing, and refinished the interior. It's called sweat equity. For 6 years we didn't own a TV. I could say that we didn't have time to watch TV, but the truth is there was no place to put one in the dinky travel trailer we were living in. BTW, we tripled our money in 6 years, which gave us the down payment on a home we actually could live in.
Here is the link to my first home... the one I bought at age 22 and the one my family thought I had just flushed away my life savings.

Best single investment I have made.

Be warned the pictures are graphic and taken on the day I took possession...

Home on a 25x100 East Oakland lot with a burnt out garage in back... but the water and power were on so I had a start.

//www.city-data.com/forum/attac...s-scan0008.jpg

To this day I have never lived in a home with cable/satellite, own a cell phone and my New car is 15 years old...

Getting out on my own and owning a home meant everything... I had to keep adjusting my expectations until I found what I could afford.

I still own this home today and have had two renters... since I moved to the next project.

Owning was full of life lessons... how to interact with neighbors, learned skills of carpentry, plumbing, roofing, electrical, masonry, etc...
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Old 08-07-2017, 11:30 AM
 
Location: Ruidoso, NM
5,667 posts, read 6,593,451 times
Reputation: 4817
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Caldwell View Post
The majority of people are so lazy they are worthless. They want to enjoy a standard of living that is not supported by their income.
This is nothing new. The large and growing disparity between the incomes of the rich and poor IS new.

The support for lower skilled jobs (mostly provided by the presence of unions) has basically disappeared. This has affected wages all through the income scale. Even the most highly educated have only maintained similar incomes to 40 years ago, they've not gained ground.

Rather our economic gains have gone to investors, not workers. The "gap" has been filled with escalating debt (both fiscal and private).
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