For or against cashless society without banknotes? (bank, jobs, government)

[doodlemagic]

Originally Posted by stockwiz

I don't live in a legal marijuana state but I'm going to keep using it, regardless. When laws don't make sense, I violate them. They don't need to know. It's kind of how I believe speed limits are universally too low and violate them as much as I can get away with without getting pulled over. I don't need the nanny state holding my hand from cradle to grave.

Eventually I'll move to a state which has more roundabouts and legal pot so I don't have to violate the law or sit pointlessly at stoplights when nobody is around. For now, I need my cash.

Haha, I was sayihng the exact same thing. First off I truly believe even if your not up to anything criminal nobody needs to know your business and we should still be concerned about our privacy even if were straight as an arrow.

That said there's so many "grey market" type things that you can't do without cash. For me buying pot is one, nobody respects marijuana laws,it doesn't harm anyone, I refuse to follow rules that are senseless and pointless and it seems most people feel the same way. I was at a festival DoDivision in Chicago last weekend and people were smoking joints all over teh place cops dont really care, its like one of those laws nobody respects like speed limits to an extent, etc.

For anyone who's against pot and can't relate to that think about buying squares at a superbowl party, doing a survivor pool or fantasy football league with friends, yep that's technically illegal gambling, or how about paying someone cash for a small job. All these things either couldn't be done or things would get tricky without cash, yet I would think most of us have participated in one of those things in our life

[doodlemagic]

Originally Posted by Larry Caldwell

Welcome to America. We have things called credit unions. They are like a bank, but are nonprofit. They offer a wide range of online banking services, and have a nationwide network of ATM machines that allow no-fee access to your cash. Because they are nonprofit, they don't bleed their customers with fees for everything, and return the money in service. Generally they pay higher interest on CDs.

A megabank is a huge institution like Bank of America, US Bank, Wells Fargo, Citibank, etc. They have billions of dollars in assets, so they skin their customers at every opportunity because they want more. They can legally steal from you because you agreed to it in the fine print when you opened your account. Google Credit Union (your city) and you will find many more reasonable alternatives. If you spend money offshore, pick one that offers good fund transfer rates. My credit union Visa debit card charges me $1 for every $100 I spend in EU countries. I don't know what the transfer fee for rubles or yuan would be.

This is COMPLETELY FALSE!!!

This is what I thought, so I kept an account with $1,000 in there just to keep a relationship with them as they have great rates on auto loans. Wasn't getting statements, next thing I know my $1,000 is like $600 because they've been taking $15 a month. The also do charge ATM fees unless you go to a specific ATM like a 711 or someone they have a relationship wtih. Credit Unions aren't some blanket free banking

[LifeIsGood01]

Originally Posted by doodlemagic

Haha, I was sayihng the exact same thing. First off I truly believe even if your not up to anything criminal nobody needs to know your business and we should still be concerned about our privacy even if were straight as an arrow.

That said there's so many "grey market" type things that you can't do without cash. For me buying pot is one, nobody respects marijuana laws,it doesn't harm anyone, I refuse to follow rules that are senseless and pointless and it seems most people feel the same way. I was at a festival DoDivision in Chicago last weekend and people were smoking joints all over teh place cops dont really care, its like one of those laws nobody respects like speed limits to an extent, etc.

For anyone who's against pot and can't relate to that think about buying squares at a superbowl party, doing a survivor pool or fantasy football league with friends, yep that's technically illegal gambling, or how about paying someone cash for a small job. All these things either couldn't be done or things would get tricky without cash, yet I would think most of us have participated in one of those things in our life

I was thinking about this thread the other day and drug dealers would have problems if everything was digital currency only.

I don't like pot, i don't like smoking period of anything but I know people who will pass it around at a party for those who like it and I don't think there is a problem with that. but also I don't like the smell of it, I have tried it before when younger and never got high so I don't see the point.

[doodlemagic]

Originally Posted by newtocolumbia

We travelled around Europe, never a problem to pay with cash until we arrived to the Kingdom of Cashless. Keep insults to yourself. I must be an idiot by not wanting to deal with credit card debt, theft of funds etc. I have good reasons to not use or even carry cards. Been robbed by skimmers and all kinds of loss in tens of thousands just by using credit and debit cards. Take a look at the stats, more than 80% people do not want cashless. I could also say the same about you.

Death to Credit Cards!

Nothing wrong with carrying cash and preferring to use it but he's right, you are dumb to carry only cash. Most hotels will require a card to hold the room, for damages, phone charges, room service. Unless you had enough cash to plunk down a deposit for like 3 night or heck maybe even a week how did you expect to get a hotel room? Not sure if you were renting rental cars but again something that requires a card.

If you want to use cash for 99.9% of your purchases more power to you but in this day and age its dumb not to carry a visa or MC logo on you just in case

[doodlemagic]

Originally Posted by PacoMartin

Sweden is having a national discussion about this topic. With nearly all transactions in the country being done without cash and only about equivalent of US$600 in cash per capita in circulation (vs over $4000 in the USA) the question of the rights of the individual who wants to use cash are preserved

Since you can only get cash from an ATM in Sweden (not from bank teller in nearly all banks) the lack of any ATMs in small towns becomes a problem. Also many businesses simply refuse to accept cash in payment.

The central bank in Sweden believes the answer is in digital currency. Although this would be another electronic transaction, it would be backed by the central bank. Commercial bank money including credit cards is basically backed by debt. And commercial banks can go bankrupt, whereas the "central bank" cannot go bankrupt.

Of course if there is a coronal mass ejection (CME) equivalent to the one that occurred on 1 September 1859. According to a report published in 2012 by physicist Pete Riley of Predictive Science Inc., the chance of Earth being hit by a similar class storm between 2012 and 2022 is 12%.

As 1859 was well before the electronic age, a similar event may cause widespread havoc to our age, and to the system of cashless transactions in general.

I was caught in the riots St Croix in 1989 during the aftermath of Hurricane Hugo, and I can testify that when people are selling sandwiches for $10 consisting of two pieces of stale bread and slice of American cheese, your credit cards are not worth anything on an island with no electricity and lots of guns.

Should this happen its kind of a use case for cryptocurrencies. I'd rather use a currency like Bitcoin which is pseudo anonymous rather than having everything known and tracked by the government credit card companies, marketing agencies. I think a lot of people would feel the same and follow suit and for those who want true anonymity you have coins like NavCoin and Monero among others.

[Muevelos]

Originally Posted by doodlemagic

This is COMPLETELY FALSE!!!

This is what I thought, so I kept an account with $1,000 in there just to keep a relationship with them as they have great rates on auto loans. Wasn't getting statements, next thing I know my $1,000 is like $600 because they've been taking $15 a month. The also do charge ATM fees unless you go to a specific ATM like a 711 or someone they have a relationship wtih. Credit Unions aren't some blanket free banking

Don't you pay attention to your bank activity online if you aren't getting paper statements? Going from $1000 to $600 is a huge number and a decent period of time, and no offense, seems careless on your part to not pay attention even if you aren't getting paper statements. I have Both Banks and Credit Union, never had the issue you have *****, but CU have many advantages.

[PacoMartin]

Originally Posted by doodlemagic

Should this happen ...

Can you be explicit? By "this" do you mean a CME?

The Swedish bank carries this statement on their web site.

The Riksbank is responsible for providing Sweden with banknotes and coins. Our tasks include issuing banknotes and coins, destroying worn-out banknotes and coins and redeeming invalid banknotes. The Riksbank does not govern how much cash is in circulation in society; this is instead determined by demand from the general public.

The Swedish central bank is now circulating US$5,580 million in banknotes, so for a population of 10 million that is $558 per person in six denominations. In contrast in the USA we circulate roughly $560 per capita just in twenty dollar bills.

The primary banknote circulating in Sweden is nearly equivalent to 50 Euros (the most common banknote in the Euro zone). But only 7 of these notes per capita is circulating.

Sweden's largest banknote is worth US$117. It hasn't been eliminated by there are only 3.35 million banknotes circulating in a country of 10 million people, so you will probably never see one. Personally, I think there is a safe full of these notes so that they can be used in the event of a national emergency.

[MinivanDriver]

Originally Posted by doodlemagic

This is COMPLETELY FALSE!!!

This is what I thought, so I kept an account with $1,000 in there just to keep a relationship with them as they have great rates on auto loans. Wasn't getting statements, next thing I know my $1,000 is like $600 because they've been taking $15 a month. The also do charge ATM fees unless you go to a specific ATM like a 711 or someone they have a relationship wtih. Credit Unions aren't some blanket free banking

Seriously? Sure, not all credit unions are created equal. But you didn't read the terms when opening your account? Didn't you check your statement? I mean, if your account is accurate, you went two years without looking into your account.

[davebarnes]

Originally Posted by LifeIsGood01

... drug dealers would have problems if everything was digital currency only.
I don't like pot,...

What does weed have to with illegal drugs?

[JonathanLB]

Originally Posted by stockwiz

I don't live in a legal marijuana state but I'm going to keep using it, regardless. When laws don't make sense, I violate them. They don't need to know. It's kind of how I believe speed limits are universally too low and violate them as much as I can get away with without getting pulled over. I don't need the nanny state holding my hand from cradle to grave.

Eventually I'll move to a state which has more roundabouts and legal pot so I don't have to violate the law or sit pointlessly at stoplights when nobody is around. For now, I need my cash.

Haha so true. Almost every speed limit is by design made for the dumbest, slowest, poorest reflex, barely seeing older drivers. They make no sense when driving a sports car as a young guy with perfect reflexes and superior eyesight. There should be a test - make it cost $200/year even, extra tax revenue for all I care - that gives you a sticker on your plate legally permitting 10 over for you, and specifying if you’re going 15 over it’s the same as someone else going 5 over for ticket purposes.

I always speed a bit and figure if I get a ticket it’s worth it for all of the time saved and not having to drive like a grandma constantly. I’ve had one speeding ticket 13 years ago and it was BS, a 45 turning into a 25 abruptly and I was at 43, slowing down. The cops love to park there apparently and get people who don’t remember that it just drops by 20 immediately.