Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I still don't understand this hysteria about the upcoming cashless society. A survey by the BIS covering 42 countries from the period 2006-2016 found that the growth in Currency in Circulation (CIC) was outpacing growth in GDP in all but one country (the poster boy for cashless society, Sweden). Even Sweden seems to be reconsidering as it's CIC increased in 2018 after eleven straight years of decreasing.
The USA increased it's Currency in Circulation by 86.77% while it's GDP only increased by 34.51% from 2006 to 2016.
The United Kingdom (U.K.) actually saw it's GDP drop slightly over the period, and despite a cultural distrust of large denomination banknotes increased it's CIC supply by over 80%.
Sweden and Norway were the only countries that were decreasing currency in circulation, but Norway was also suffering a drop in GDP, while Sweden had positive GDP growth. Both countries have diminished circulation of their 1000kr banknote (the largest in circulation for the last few decades).
Only 14% of the world's economy is not included in this list.
Difference Country Growth in CIC minus Growth in GDP
769.3% Argentina 904.04% minus 134.72%
454.5% Sudan 621.32% minus 166.83%
409.2% Mozambique 441.72% minus 32.52%
377.5% DR Congo 522.28% minus 144.81%
368.2% Ukraine 354.74% minus -13.44%
326.7% Angola 441.16% minus 114.49%
311.8% Iceland 329.46% minus 17.63%
274.3% Algeria 318.17% minus 43.83%
243.6% Pakistan 350.26% minus 106.65%
206.0% Afghanistan 371.57% minus 165.62%
180.3% South Korea 249.75% minus 69.50%
166.9% Bolivia 362.06% minus 195.20%
155.9% Egypt 368.75% minus 212.88%
139.6% Iraq 279.57% minus 139.97%
138.7% Mexico 224.11% minus 85.42%
130.7% Chile 234.42% minus 103.74%
130.3% Turkey 358.55% minus 228.24%
126.1% Kazakhstan 191.05% minus 65.00%
119.0% Israel 197.56% minus 78.56%
109.2% Colombia 182.97% minus 73.73%
102.0% Oman 148.41% minus 46.39%
85.9% U.K. 83.73% minus -2.22%
72.6% Eurozone 79.26% minus 6.62%
52.3% U.S. 86.77% minus 34.51%
48.1% Myanmar 412.99% minus 364.94%
36.0% Morocco 88.86% minus 52.84%
34.8% Kenya 207.94% minus 173.10%
26.5% Thailand 109.98% minus 83.46%
24.3% India 287.23% minus 262.91%
23.9% Switzerland 77.61% minus 53.74%
22.8% Canada 58.64% minus 35.87%
21.5% New Zealand 75.69% minus 54.23%
18.0% Japan 27.07% minus 9.03%
17.7% Australia 80.65% minus 62.93%
12.7% Russia 177.94% minus 165.28%
11.6% Denmark 19.82% minus 8.22%
10.4% Brazil 170.49% minus 160.09%
5.2% Norway -2.37% minus -7.57%
3.5% Indonesia 243.02% minus 239.56%
1.1% Nigeria 179.65% minus 178.54%
0.1% South Africa 134.67% minus 134.54%
-65.9% Sweden -44.24% minus 21.66%
You seem to love confusing stats and abbreviations, just like many politicians, who get paid huge salaries for doing nothing just creating more mysterious abbreviations wasting our time making the GP trying to decipher them and the stupid stats.
You seem to love confusing stats and abbreviations, just like many politicians, who get paid huge salaries for doing nothing just creating more mysterious abbreviations wasting our time making the GP trying to decipher them and the stupid stats.
Currency in circulation CIC is the amount cash in circulation.
Gross domestic product GDP the total value of goods produced and services provided in a country during one year.
How does someone who graduates from high school not know what GDP means?
Complex 9th grade mathematical calculations like USA 13.68 trillion GDP to 18.41 trillion is a 34.51% increase.
What is GP short for? Game Player, as in someone who has never read a book?
My point is that outside of Sweden every country in the world is creating more cash than population growth or GDP growth. There is almost nobody seriously moving towards cashlessness outside of Scandinavia.
Comments like the one below have no basis in reality.
Quote:
He also adds that once the current cash infrastructures disappear, they will be gone for forever: “We will never be able to get them back. In this world, people without bank accounts will find themselves marginalised, disenfranchised from an infrastructure that previously supported them.
Scandinavia is somewhat different. You have very small wealthy highly educated populations surrounded by the Euro Area. They can't afford to produce modern banknotes in such small quantities.
I knew CIC from your post. I knew GDP for a long time. I do not know what BIS stands for. BIS could stand for many things. It is not what it stands for (WISF) but what you stand it for. While I know what GDP stands for, I bet many do not. GP (game player, or whatever) is when one writes in too many abbreviations. Must keep in mind not everyone understands them. How can I know what BIS stands for in your world? I only guessed it could be Bank of International Settlements that came to my mind, although I am not a professional in that sphere. Finally it is not about calculations. Plus I am not a native Eigo speaker.
OK, understood, they manufacture more banknotes and coins (cash) than there is need for. Barely believable. Then in a decade they burn them, sell some to collectors at exorbitant prices and then spend huge amounts to print new updated ones. My concern is the disappearing beautiful curencies of Europe due to the Eurozone and the faceless Euro, which is barely cash to me as it has got faceless designs and I love al things attractive, including ornate buildings, although not always ornate furniture.
"They can't afford to produce modern banknotes in such small quantities." - Yet they do print banknotes of their own and in small quantities. And so do the Swiss (pop. 6M) and Canadians (pop. 30M surrounded by 320M). Iceland (pop. 0.3M) also prints banknotes of their own. Afaik the smallest country in the world that prints their own banknotes (Iceland). Even artists print their own souvernir notes in quantities under 1000. There are printing houses that can print you 600 (bank)notes if you pay for it. With all the bells and whistles. No big deal, not too expensive.
Currency in circulation CIC is the amount cash in circulation.
Gross domestic product GDP the total value of goods produced and services provided in a country during one year.
How does someone who graduates from high school not know what GDP means?
Complex 9th grade mathematical calculations like USA 13.68 trillion GDP to 18.41 trillion is a 34.51% increase.
What is GP short for? Game Player, as in someone who has never read a book?
My point is that outside of Sweden every country in the world is creating more cash than population growth or GDP growth. There is almost nobody seriously moving towards cashlessness outside of Scandinavia.
Comments like the one below have no basis in reality.
Scandinavia is somewhat different. You have very small wealthy highly educated populations surrounded by the Euro Area. They can't afford to produce modern banknotes in such small quantities.
Another difference is that the USD is a reserve currency, used and distributed throughout the world. So the effective CIC within the US borders could be much lower.
Another difference is that the USD is a reserve currency, used and distributed throughout the world. So the effective CIC within the US borders could be much lower.
That's an absolute given. It is also true of the Euro, the Swiss Franc, and the Singaporean and Hong Kong Dollar. To a lesser extent, the Australian and Canadian Dollar circulate outside of their country.
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtocolumbia
I only guessed it could be Bank of International Settlements that came to my mind, although I am not a professional in that sphere. Finally it is not about calculations. Plus I am not a native Eigo speaker.
You are correct, it is the Bank of International Settlements which compiles this kind of data around the world. I usually spell that one out, but I must have forgotten.
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtocolumbia
"They can't afford to produce modern banknotes in such small quantities." - Yet they do print banknotes of their own and in small quantities. And so do the Swiss (pop. 6M) and Canadians (pop. 30M surrounded by 320M). Iceland (pop. 0.3M) also prints banknotes of their own. Afaik the smallest country in the world that prints their own banknotes (Iceland).
Switzerland spends 4X as much per banknote as the USA. Even though they only circulate about half a billion notes, they would never outsource their banknote production as it is very important to the country. Switzerland twice produced an entire series of banknotes to keep in storage in case of widespread counterfeiting. Their banknotes circulate widely for such a small country.
Canadians print banknotes for over 30 foreign countries. Australia also produces banknotes for many different countries. Australia circulates about 1.6 billion AUD notes, and Canada just over 2 billion CAD notes. If they didn't have the foreign banknote business they would probably consider outsourcing.
Iceland and Norway have their banknotes printed by De La Rue in Britain. Sweden and Denmark have them printed in France. Finland makes coins for all the Nordic countries. Counterfeit coins are an issue n Europe. It obviously would be a waste of time to counterfeit US coins.
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtocolumbia
Even artists print their own souvernir notes in quantities under 1000. There are printing houses that can print you 600 (bank)notes if you pay for it. With all the bells and whistles. No big deal, not too expensive.
Souvenir banknotes do not have anti-counterfeiting devices. Twenty-five years ago almost all countries produced banknotes in house.
"Motion" (a moving image in the striped band) so that when the banknote is tilted, the picture in the striped band appears to move was only introduced in 2006.
Norway has only 125 million banknotes in circulation and Sweden has just over 200 million. The cost of producing them in house would be exorbitant. Switzerland has less than 500 million, but they are of very high face value. So they are resigned to banknotes being expensive to produce.
Last edited by PacoMartin; 01-20-2019 at 09:12 AM..
"Souvenir banknotes do not have anti-counterfeiting devices." - they do have some, such as hairs, fluorescing logos and fluorescing design parts, security threads of some sorts and now widespread watermarked paper and also polymer notes with security windows, but not as advanced as government banknotes. Oh, and by the way, let's not call them "souvenir banknotes" but just "souvenir notes" or numismatic products. Individual private releases (not issues!) are not released by banks and fantasy "banks" do not count as banks, thus their notes are not banknotes and not currency and must be clearly marked as NOT LEGAL TENDER. I collect some and I enjoy spending time looking up security features under UV machine of both fantasy notes and (government issued) banknotes.
I'm trying not to lose sight of my basic point. This fear mongering about banknotes being replaced by chips in people's necks like dogs is not based in reality.
A survey of 42 countries from period of 2006 to 2016 found that one country, Sweden, was reducing their banknotes faster than GDP growth. Norway also decreased the banknotes in circulation, but their GDP was also decreasing. The other 40 countries were increasing banknotes faster than GDP growth.
I've listed the countries in the study. They are ranked but no statistics are provided for the numerically impaired.
Argentina
Sudan
Mozambique
DR Congo
Ukraine
Angola
Iceland
Algeria
Pakistan
Afghanistan
South Korea
Bolivia
Egypt
Iraq
Mexico
Chile
Turkey
Kazakhstan
Israel
Colombia
Oman
United Kingdom
EuroZone
USA
Myanmar
Morocco
Kenya
Thailand
India
Switzerland
Canada
New Zealand
Japan
Australia
Russia
Denmark
Brazil
Indonesia
Nigeria
South Africa
Uruguay is not on the list. They are seriously looking at a cashless society, but that is because hyperinflation has dogged the country. Twice they have redenominated their currency and dropped three zeros. They have to make all new banknotes and all new coins. The coins become worthless very quickly and they must continually issue new banknotes. They are looking at digital currency as a way to prevent having to constantly issue new banknotes.
Sweden, Norway, and Denmark are a little bit of a special case. They are very sophisticated countries and they all have their banknotes printed in other countries. They have a lot of trust in banks and each country has a phone app that is widely used in the country for person to person transactions. Even there the country is unlikely to go completely cashless, but cash will diminish to a minor portion of transactions.
Last edited by PacoMartin; 01-20-2019 at 07:33 PM..
How is a digital currency going to help to get rid of inflation?
"They are ranked but no statistics are provided for the numerically impaired." - Can't make use of that list as I got no key to it. Numericaly impared?
You seem to love confusing stats and abbreviations, just like many politicians, who get paid huge salaries for doing nothing just creating more mysterious abbreviations wasting our time making the GP trying to decipher them and the stupid stats.
numerically impaired
I did a simple comparison between change in currency in circulation and change in GDP for 42 countries. Anyone with a high school education should be able to comprehend.
How is a digital currency going to help to get rid of inflation?
"They are ranked but no statistics are provided for the numerically impaired." - Can't make use of that list as I got no key to it. Numericaly impared?
GDP connection with banknote issuance?
It will not.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
