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TaxPhD, this is not my first acquaintanceship with you. I refuse to answer your question posted within the thread, “A poor minimum drags on the median wage rate”, “What happens to the quantity demanded of labor when the wage rate is set at an artificial price floor above the equilibrium price?”.
My respect for you apparently exceeds yours for me. I believe you’re intelligent and aware of prices such as wage rates are generally the consequential results of negotiations and reconciliations between opposing forces or entities.
The federal minimum wage rate and all its updates determined by our United states congresses and signed off on by our presidents are no less than other wage rates, what you describe as an “equilibrium price”. If I were lesser acquainted with your more intelligently written posts, I would have considered your word choices as inadvertent anomalies to be ignored.
Respectfully, Supposn
This is what happens when someone is over their head. Being condescending doesn't help your credibility.
Dennis: What I object to is you automatically treatin' me like an inferior.
Arthur: Well, I am king.
Dennis: Oh, king, eh? Very nice. And how'd you get that, then? By exploiting the workers! By hanging on to outdated imperialist dogma which perpetuates the economic and social differences in our society! If there's ever going to be any progress--
Dennis: We're an anarcho-syndicalist commune. We take it in turns to act as sort-of-executive officer for the week--
Arthur: Yes.
Dennis: But all the decisions of that officer have to be ratified at a special biweekly meeting--
Arthur: Yes, I see.
Dennis: By a simple majority, in the case of purely internal affairs--
Arthur: [getting bored] Be quiet.
Dennis: But by a two thirds majority, in the case of more major--
Arthur: Be quiet! I order you to be quiet!
Dennis' Mother: Order, eh? Who does he think he is?
Arthur: I am your king!
Dennis' Mother: Well I didn't vote for you.
Arthur: You don't vote for kings!
Dennis' Mother: How'd you become king, then?
Arthur: The Lady of the Lake, [Angel chorus begins singing in background] her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite, held aloft Excalibur from the bosom of the water signifying by Divine Providence that I, Arthur, was to carry Excalibur. [Angel chorus ends] That is why I am your king!
Dennis: Listen. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.
Arthur: Be quiet!
Dennis: You can't expect to wield supreme power just 'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you!
Arthur: Shut up!
Dennis: I mean, if I went 'round saying I was an emperor just because some moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away!
Arthur: Shut up! Will you shut up?! [Grabs Dennis and shakes him]
Dennis: Ah, now we see the violence inherent in the system!
Arthur: Shut up!
Dennis: Oh! Come and see the violence inherent in the system! Help! Help! I'm being repressed!
a) we don't have enough going on right now?
b) do you know or know of ANYONE limited to a MW pay rate?
what skills do they have that warrant earning more? <-- the real issue with the low end.
Anecdote:
I have a ton of yard work to be done.
No skill needed beyond an ability to use a shovel and wheelbarrow.
Personal habits however (sober, on time, 2 days in a row, etc) are another matter.
How many worthy hires do you suppose will respond to my ads?
There is no one worth hiring who doesn't have work and virtually all of them are getting above MW.
Being worth hiring is the employment problem. Not wage rates.
eta: The other foot dropping.
Somehow making them worth hiring (all/most/many) by skill injections or behavior modification won't create jobs for them.
Those skill and/or personal qualities jobs are already being done by someone who has always been worth hiring.
Adding a slug of new people is far more likely to end up depressing the wage rates they have been earning.
There are a lot of yard maintenance companies in my town. The guy I hired advertised on craigslist. There's not really a shortage of those workers from where I sit.
Thanks for the credit but I really can't agree with your conclusions.
I don't believe we can ever 'employ' our way out of the hole we're in*.
In my view (expounded on any number of time previously) ...
we need holistic approaches that will reduce the raw number of those unable/unwilling to do for themselves and theirs.
Reduce dramatically... and in the short term (30 years?) to physically shift most of them away from the job centers
where they mostly just clutter up limited in-town housing and overload social services designed around full(er) employment.
At that point... the remainder and all those who have been employed all along will have
far greater value in the labor market and not need MW or UBI schemes to get along on.
Maybe even enough more that the employed could afford to pay most of the tax needed to support the others.
* That will still leave us with the ever declining employment base rooted in the constant Tech/AI changes.
I imagine if we sat down for a long conversation over beers there would be significant agreement on many concepts and even details relative to our underperforming and opt-out cadres.
Making our small business environments - micro climates if you will - less hostile is a first step to employ those who want to be employed and have some skills or drive and we could make that happen in the short term.
_______________
Although marketed differently school districts in my area have already implemented strategies obviously designed to keep kids away from disengaged and objectively poor parents so much as possible.
There are a lot of yard maintenance companies in my town. The guy I hired advertised on craigslist. There's not really a shortage of those workers from where I sit.
Where I'm located lawn-guys make more than minimum wage too.
TaxPhD, this is not my first acquaintanceship with you. I refuse to answer your question posted within the thread, “A poor minimum drags on the median wage rate”, “What happens to the quantity demanded of labor when the wage rate is set at an artificial price floor above the equilibrium price?”.
My respect for you apparently exceeds yours for me. I believe you’re intelligent and aware of prices such as wage rates are generally the consequential results of negotiations and reconciliations between opposing forces or entities. The federal minimum wage rate and all its updates determined by our United states congresses and signed off on by our presidents are no less than other wage rates, what you describe as an “equilibrium price”. If I were lesser acquainted with your more intelligently written posts, I would have considered your word choices as inadvertent anomalies to be ignored.
Respectfully, Supposn
They're in my town as well. What does that have to do with anything?
The goal, and this chat, is about hiring someone who DIDN'T have a job. Right?
Certainly as opposed to hiring some company to provide a worker or two.
I don't really know what you mean by people "worth" hiring. Wages, and wealth in general, do not have anything to do with the human value of any particular person. Wages and salary don't even say much about whether someone is competent in their job, since the job market is only partially meritocratic.
At everywhere I've worked, wages are set by a kind of consensus. We ask "what are our regional competitors paying for this job title/class?" and set something in the same range. A little more or a little less.
Therefore, raising the minimum wage puts upward pressure on wages in the lower bands since that consensus will rise. That does cost a few of the lowest end jobs, but it pays off macro-economically through economic activity by those whose got raises, since in the lower bands they put everything they earn back into the economy.
We live in inflationary world. Fixed wage rates make no sense in this world. In my opinion we should have pegged minimum wage to CPI a long time ago, and stop having this argument once and for all. If the $7.25 minimum was pegged to CPI it would currently be $9.23. Had we done it in 1971 when the minimum wage was $1.60, it would currently be $10.34.
I keep Yuengling in the house but there are several GOOD! local brew houses too. My treat.
Of course. For some certainly. The youngest especially.
But the rest l never come to pass and that's why the UBI advocates will eventually gain the high ground.
I feel bad for my grandkids.
1. After spending a fair bit time in SD and SF CA. I've become more or less addicted to relatively unbalanced hoppy West Coast style IPA beers (Green Flash West Coast - the defunct Green Bullet was even better, various brews from Sculpin ect.). good beer is a key accoutrement for good life.
2. For another time, I have a really funny Dick Yuengling story. FWIIW I used to co-own a small liquor-beer-wine distributorship in Texas and tried for years to cajole DY and his sales-chief to roll out their beers in TX.
3. To borrow from Lemmy Kilmister again, "The Outstretched Grasping Hand" of big, bigger, biggest government, cradle to grave entitlements and zero personal accountability is out of the bag likely never to be put back.
At the moment we only have one grandkid but I feel badly for him as well.
More Lemmy from the same song.......
"I twist the truth, I rule the world
My crown is called deceit
I am the emperor of lies
You grovel at my feet
I rob you and I slaughter you
Your downfall is my gain
And still you play the sycophant
And revel in your pain
And all my promises are lies
All my love is hate
I am the politician
And I decide your fate"
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