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I think our circumstances have a lot to do with how we do in life, but also our nature. There was a documentary series called 7Up which followed the lives of British school children of different classes, circumstances and temperaments at the age of 7 and revisited the group every 7 years. The last installment was 63Up. There were very few surprises. Their lives were almost completely predictable. I saw that when I was a camp counselor. I had a group of 5 year olds and I could see pretty clearly what kind of people they were and would become. I see it with my own cousins who I have known for more than 60 years. They pretty much are the same people now as they were as children. People seem to have certain traits they carry with them their whole lives that shape their lives. And success isn't necessarily monetary. I think anyone who is happy with their circumstances is a success, regardless of how much money or possessions they have. In the series, the two boys who were in an orphanage at 7 turned out to be among the most happy and well adjusted of the group even though they had been manual laborers. They had family, a wife, grandkids, a home, were fit and healthy, and probably appreciated what they had as much or more as those born with a silver spoon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57
Sometimes "choices" are not what people consider choices, and it's hard to come to grips with that. It's not so simple as saying "I choose to be rich" at age 17 or something. That may be too late actually.
In fact research I've seen shows that it's the middle school period, particularly 8th grade or age ~14, that determines a lot of life success. At least, college acceptance and graduation is pretty clearly coordinated to how well the student did in 8th grade. So that period is very important at least to the extent things like college determine life outcomes.
I mean, I wasn't thinking very seriously about anything at age 14. So think about all the environmental factors behind whether a student in middle school does well or not, and those "choices" are not choices like choosing which Netflix show you're going to watch. You are the accumulation of the lego blocks that built you, you probably didn't realize at the time you (or someone else like your parents, or environmental factors like your neighborhood), "chose" a lot of those blocks. You can adjust the later ones but at that point a lot of the structire is built.
This is not to say that people can't adapt, turn it all around, but it's harder and they'll never catch up to the people with that head start although they can get far beyond those that don't try.
That depends on where you are. In NJ where I work, most gas stations are owned/run by immigrant Subcontinentals or Slavics and landscapers are Hispanic. But in PA where I live most of those same jobs are held by seemingly native-born white Americans.
When I was a young adult in suburban Essex County, NJ I noticed that all the landscapers had Italian last names (easy to spot because their name was on the truck). Fast forward to today, and they are all Hispanic. I guess the Italians sent their kids to law/medical school with all that money they made. The Hispanics will do the same no doubt, and I wonder who will do the landscaping in 2050?
There used to be a white working class in the DC metro area until about the 1990s. But then, in a matter years, they went poof! and were replaced. I used to wonder where everybody went. It seems like some of their children moved into office jobs and other lines of work. While other families moved to the Baltimore area or farther out to places like Pennsylvania or West Virginia.
Nowadays, it is common to see Hispanic day laborers at all the Home Depot and Lowe’s stores.
If you're American born, and can communicate in a 'professional' manner than getting to a middle-class income is not too difficult.
STAYING there is the problem. Age discrimination and job inequity become much more pronounced as you get older.
As they say ... up or out.
I think maybe you are talking about upper middle class. Almost everyone I know got to a certain level at work by their 40's and stayed there. Very few places to go up. And somebody has to do the actual work while upper management is busy politicking.
There used to be a white working class in the DC metro area until about the 1990s. But then, in a matter years, they went poof! and were replaced. I used to wonder where everybody went. It seems like some of their children moved into office jobs and other lines of work. While other families moved to the Baltimore area or farther out to places like Pennsylvania or West Virginia.
Nowadays, it is common to see Hispanic day laborers at all the Home Depot and Lowe’s stores.
Many of them moved to Calvert, Charles, St. Mary's and southern Anne Arundel Counties.
That's who populated Chesapeake Ranch Estates in southern Calvert which went from a population of less than 2000 to 17,000 today. The same thing happened in the Twin Beaches where the population has more than tripled and now, instead of 2/3 of the houses being summer homes, they're nearly 100% year round.
I think maybe you are talking about upper middle class. Almost everyone I know got to a certain level at work by their 40's and stayed there. Very few places to go up. And somebody has to do the actual work while upper management is busy politicking.
Not what I've seen.
I've seen lots of people in their 50s and up not able to get back on the career track. My cousin has a Masters Degree from Stanford and like 20 years of accounting experience, and she has been unable to find a job for years.
I have similar stories from some of my friend's parents. If you ran a business for 15 years and are trying to get back into what you did before ... good luck with that.
If you're married and one person can keep working, then that usually works.
But if you're single or both are thrown off the track, or you're thrown out of a cushy marriage, then it's difficult.
Executives don't want to hire people in their 50s to do producer role work. They want to hire people in their 20s and 30s.
I've seen lots of people in their 50s and up not able to get back on the career track. My cousin has a Masters Degree from Stanford and like 20 years of accounting experience, and she has been unable to find a job for years.
I have similar stories from some of my friend's parents. If you ran a business for 15 years and are trying to get back into what you did before ... good luck with that.
If you're married and one person can keep working, then that usually works.
But if you're single or both are thrown off the track, or you're thrown out of a cushy marriage, then it's difficult.
Executives don't want to hire people in their 50s to do producer role work. They want to hire people in their 20s and 30s.
Age discrimination is a real thing. At my work we force candidates to do a 30-50 minute presentation for the mid-level and higher jobs. Everyone in attendance writes notes and submits (anonymous) comments. I'm not a big fan of this. Used to be but not anymore.
After having read the comments that the audience submits numerous times... it just sad and tragic to see the ageism, the sexism, the racism, etc... come out in what people say. They make judgements based on how they look, really badly, for jobs that are only going to have public speaking roles maybe a few times a year at most. It's just shocking what people will say about someone based on their appearance.
And these are supposedly well educated and mostly liberal people making such comments.
Like everything it depends. I worked 28 years with a public utility. Me and all of my peers retired with a pension. After being retired a year I went on line and looked for jobs in IT and got hired immediately as a contractor for a major pharma company on a 6 month contract at the age of 60. When that expired I got a job as a contractor for the utility along with 4 other of my fellow retirees from the same department. That lasted 18 months, working from home. When that expired we all retired for good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jobaba
Not what I've seen.
I've seen lots of people in their 50s and up not able to get back on the career track. My cousin has a Masters Degree from Stanford and like 20 years of accounting experience, and she has been unable to find a job for years.
I have similar stories from some of my friend's parents. If you ran a business for 15 years and are trying to get back into what you did before ... good luck with that.
If you're married and one person can keep working, then that usually works.
But if you're single or both are thrown off the track, or you're thrown out of a cushy marriage, then it's difficult.
Executives don't want to hire people in their 50s to do producer role work. They want to hire people in their 20s and 30s.
Many of them moved to Calvert, Charles, St. Mary's and southern Anne Arundel Counties.
That's who populated Chesapeake Ranch Estates in southern Calvert which went from a population of less than 2000 to 17,000 today. The same thing happened in the Twin Beaches where the population has more than tripled and now, instead of 2/3 of the houses being summer homes, they're nearly 100% year round.
Yes, that makes sense too. I have noticed the obvious demographic change when heading out to those counties. It is remarkable how that happens.
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