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Old 11-10-2021, 05:30 AM
 
Location: Indiana Uplands
26,422 posts, read 46,591,155 times
Reputation: 19573

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taggerung View Post
That's assuming the global governments and central banks all sit on their hands and let deflation happen (LOL). The modern debt based fiat monetary system cannot function in a deflationary environment.
That will never happen, asset prices will continue to rise indefinitely until the next major crisis appears.
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Old 11-10-2021, 08:42 AM
 
19,799 posts, read 18,093,261 times
Reputation: 17289
Quote:
Originally Posted by GraniteStater View Post
"Hydraulic" fracking with horizontal type drilling was the game changer in the Bakken Formation, that hadn't occurred prior to the last 12 years.

This isn't an argument just background.


George P. Mitchell refined all that in the '80s and '90s. Over the years he and others figured out that various "slick" waters worked so much better than gel and nitrogen foam and how exactly to deliver much greater fracturing pressures and control dwell times to a degree. This kind of thing was in full roll-out across the Barnett Shale and elsewhere 20 years ago.

IIRC Mitchell's first horizontal well was completed in the early '90s but probably fracked with nitrogen foam or gel.

Anyway my point was that hydraulic fracking according to most began in the late '40s.

What's changed the game the last ten or so years has been even more refinement of all that plus advances in detection especially 3D seismic.
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Old 11-10-2021, 10:14 AM
 
15,439 posts, read 7,497,910 times
Reputation: 19365
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
This isn't an argument just background.


George P. Mitchell refined all that in the '80s and '90s. Over the years he and others figured out that various "slick" waters worked so much better than gel and nitrogen foam and how exactly to deliver much greater fracturing pressures and control dwell times to a degree. This kind of thing was in full roll-out across the Barnett Shale and elsewhere 20 years ago.

IIRC Mitchell's first horizontal well was completed in the early '90s but probably fracked with nitrogen foam or gel.

Anyway my point was that hydraulic fracking according to most began in the late '40s.

What's changed the game the last ten or so years has been even more refinement of all that plus advances in detection especially 3D seismic.
The other big factor is the technology to keep the borehole in a thin horizontal formation gets better all the time.
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Old 11-10-2021, 01:20 PM
 
19,799 posts, read 18,093,261 times
Reputation: 17289
Quote:
Originally Posted by WRM20 View Post
The other big factor is the technology to keep the borehole in a thin horizontal formation gets better all the time.
Right on.
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Old 11-10-2021, 05:40 PM
 
1,438 posts, read 734,583 times
Reputation: 2214
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taggerung View Post
Horses/mules require vast amount of farmland to grow their feed. We don't have that farmland available. Mass use of horses and mules for transportation was possible in 1900 America, but it isn't so now...


Bicycles could work, for a time. But modern bicycles require very long supply lines, supply lines that will get increasingly into trouble with the peak of oil production...

It looks like we're headed back to walking!
You do know that horses live in the wild throughout the southwest and manage to live without people feeding them as their food grows right out of the ground pretty much everywhere.


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Old 11-11-2021, 05:17 PM
 
Location: Spain
12,722 posts, read 7,578,274 times
Reputation: 22639
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taggerung View Post
Horses/mules require vast amount of farmland to grow their feed. We don't have that farmland available. Mass use of horses and mules for transportation was possible in 1900 America, but it isn't so now...

Bicycles could work, for a time. But modern bicycles require very long supply lines, supply lines that will get increasingly into trouble with the peak of oil production...

It looks like we're headed back to walking!
And less interesting shows in Tijuana.
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Old 11-11-2021, 07:17 PM
 
4,873 posts, read 3,603,191 times
Reputation: 3881
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taggerung View Post
Horses/mules require vast amount of farmland to grow their feed. We don't have that farmland available. Mass use of horses and mules for transportation was possible in 1900 America, but it isn't so now...


Bicycles could work, for a time. But modern bicycles require very long supply lines, supply lines that will get increasingly into trouble with the peak of oil production...

It looks like we're headed back to walking!
There's nothing wrong with walking if your environment is designed for it. Rust belt city cores will be better off than sun belt suburbia, for sure.
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Old 11-12-2021, 01:16 AM
 
Location: Las Vegas & San Diego
6,913 posts, read 3,379,619 times
Reputation: 8629
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taggerung View Post
It must have been a thousand times that I've said this:

There is no replacement for oil. No other energy source available is so dense, versatile, convenient, and transportable.. But I guess we can just wait for benevolent aliens to come to earth and supply the world with a new, free energy source compatible with all the current technology and infrastructure, right
So you must have been wrong a thousand times - there are many alternatives for oil and much more dense energy sources.

For instance - A nuclear core that pushes a 100K ton aircraft carrier through the water at 40 knots (output approx 500,000 hp) - core lasts 50 years without refueling - that is hugely more dense - approx 1M times more dense.
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Old 11-12-2021, 01:58 AM
 
Location: Flyover part of Virginia
4,218 posts, read 2,459,291 times
Reputation: 5066
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankMiller View Post
There's nothing wrong with walking if your environment is designed for it. Rust belt city cores will be better off than sun belt suburbia, for sure.
Indeed. The area I live in now (Colorado Springs) will become unlivable and mostly abandoned as the mass-motoring paradigm comes to an end.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ddeemo View Post
So you must have been wrong a thousand times - there are many alternatives for oil and much more dense energy sources.

For instance - A nuclear core that pushes a 100K ton aircraft carrier through the water at 40 knots (output approx 500,000 hp) - core lasts 50 years without refueling - that is hugely more dense - approx 1M times more dense.
Nuclear doesn't work without abundant oil supplies.
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Old 11-12-2021, 07:36 AM
 
4,952 posts, read 3,057,967 times
Reputation: 6752
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taggerung View Post
Indeed. The area I live in now (Colorado Springs) will become unlivable and mostly abandoned as the mass-motoring paradigm comes to an end.
Nuclear doesn't work without abundant oil supplies.

I enjoyed Canon city more than COS upon visiting.
While I can understand a nuclear powered vessel needing oil, am at a loss as to why a power plant would require it abundantly?.
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