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Old 07-05-2008, 11:23 AM
 
Location: Boise, ID
1,356 posts, read 5,589,364 times
Reputation: 909

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irishtom29 View Post
So you guys are saying that people that work at Starbucks and MacDonalds are doomed to low wages? That they are a disentitled class good for no more than a hand to mouth existence?

You think there's not enough money in those businesses for workers to make good dough?
Anyone who thinks working a cash register at a fast food restaurant is a good idea for a career deserves to make minimum wage.

When employers look at the cost of an employee, wage is only part of the equation. They consider cost of benefits, taxes, insurance - anything that the company will pay at part of having that employee on the payroll.

What determines the amount that an employer is willing to pay for an employee are two basic things: 1) how difficult is the employee to replace (i.e. skills) and 2) how valuable is the employee to the company (i.e. how much money will the employee be able to generate for the company).

A cashier at a fast food restaurant is easily replaceable. The skills required for the job are pretty minimal and common. If someone quits or is fired it is easy to find someone else to come in and do the job. That suggests that the pay level is fair or maybe even a little high. These jobs are great for teaching young people how to work and motivating them to obtain some level of education or vocational training so they can get a job that will pay well and provide benefits to support a middle class or better lifestyle.

I have a small manufacturing company. If we were to lose our top sales rep that could be a setback. That is why my salespeople are paid quite a bit more than our warehouse workers. I can call a temp agency and expand my workforce by 50% tomorrow if needed. I can assign the temp workers to the lower skilled jobs. They could learn the higher skilled jobs within two weeks.
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Old 07-05-2008, 12:14 PM
 
9,638 posts, read 24,361,275 times
Reputation: 5304
Nobody really likes a strike, but sometimes they are necessary. In a "good" strike, the union will know that the employer can raise wages/benefits/improve working conditions without hurting the company....But it often is the workers who are responsible for the company's success, and they should share in that.
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Old 07-05-2008, 01:53 PM
 
Location: Boise, ID
1,356 posts, read 5,589,364 times
Reputation: 909
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ira500 View Post
Nobody really likes a strike, but sometimes they are necessary. In a "good" strike, the union will know that the employer can raise wages/benefits/improve working conditions without hurting the company....But it often is the workers who are responsible for the company's success, and they should share in that.
I agree 100%.

I don't believe that workers should share in the success to the same extent as owners and shareholders. After, all owners and shareholders are the ones who are taking the financial risk, sometimes at great personal sacrifice. (I remember the days when my workers got paid and I didn't.)

However, it is generally in the best interest of a company to share the success with workers - not solely because of their efforts but it is also just good business. One disgruntled employee (especially one who interacts with the public) can have a large impact on a company's image and employee morale.
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Old 07-05-2008, 01:59 PM
 
Location: Jonquil City (aka Smyrna) Georgia- by Atlanta
16,248 posts, read 21,876,353 times
Reputation: 3587
Quote:
Originally Posted by Niners fan View Post
I agree 100%.

I don't believe that workers should share in the success to the same extent as owners and shareholders. After, all owners and shareholders are the ones who are taking the financial risk, sometimes at great personal sacrifice. (I remember the days when my workers got paid and I didn't.)

However, it is generally in the best interest of a company to share the success with workers - not solely because of their efforts but it is also just good business. One disgruntled employee (especially one who interacts with the public) can have a large impact on a company's image and employee morale.
I don't know how you can say employees do not take financial risk. We are the first ones that get axed when things go slow at a company- and I don't know about you but dropping to $80 a week in unemployment is a pretty damn big risk I take. The pie should be divided up fairly and- yes- so should the risk. The owners/shareholders should get a cut, the management a cut and the employees a cut. When things get bad, the same should apply.
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Old 07-05-2008, 02:05 PM
 
Location: Jonquil City (aka Smyrna) Georgia- by Atlanta
16,248 posts, read 21,876,353 times
Reputation: 3587
Quote:
Originally Posted by Niners fan View Post
I agree 100%.

I don't believe that workers should share in the success to the same extent as owners and shareholders. After, all owners and shareholders are the ones who are taking the financial risk, sometimes at great personal sacrifice. (I remember the days when my workers got paid and I didn't.)

However, it is generally in the best interest of a company to share the success with workers - not solely because of their efforts but it is also just good business. One disgruntled employee (especially one who interacts with the public) can have a large impact on a company's image and employee morale.
And honestly, if I worked for you and you said "things are slow now and I am just not making anything" and you were truthful, I would have said something like "you know I can take an extra day off every week for the next 4 weeks to help your bottom line out" or "you know I can give up a few days of paid vacation this year because I know the business is hurting" because, as an employee, I want your business to do well and to succeed because I want to share in your success. Maybe you are one of those rare bosses that can be trusted to repay me when times get good. A few bosses can be but most cannot be.
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Old 07-05-2008, 05:53 PM
 
Location: Boise, ID
1,356 posts, read 5,589,364 times
Reputation: 909
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevK View Post
I don't know how you can say employees do not take financial risk. We are the first ones that get axed when things go slow at a company- and I don't know about you but dropping to $80 a week in unemployment is a pretty damn big risk I take. The pie should be divided up fairly and- yes- so should the risk. The owners/shareholders should get a cut, the management a cut and the employees a cut. When things get bad, the same should apply.
There is no way to divide up the risk. The risk the employees take is the job might disappear or they could get injured and impact their financial future.

The risk the employer takes is risking the start-up money (often quite substantial), paying back the loans that are often needed for expansion, liability issues (personnel, products, services). Employers are willing to take the risk for the larger payoff if and when success comes. Employers are the last ones to get paid. Sometimes there is a lot left over and sometimes there is nothing left over. Employees have a floor to their pay and consequently have a ceiling too.
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Old 07-05-2008, 05:56 PM
 
Location: Boise, ID
1,356 posts, read 5,589,364 times
Reputation: 909
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevK View Post
And honestly, if I worked for you and you said "things are slow now and I am just not making anything" and you were truthful, I would have said something like "you know I can take an extra day off every week for the next 4 weeks to help your bottom line out" or "you know I can give up a few days of paid vacation this year because I know the business is hurting" because, as an employee, I want your business to do well and to succeed because I want to share in your success. Maybe you are one of those rare bosses that can be trusted to repay me when times get good. A few bosses can be but most cannot be.
I could respond that maybe you are one of those rare employees would be accommodating in tough times.

Not to toot my own horn, but I try to manage so that my employees have no desire or reason to organize. You sound like you could have a similar philosophy on the employee side. I hope you are with a small company that really appreciates that.
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Old 07-05-2008, 06:46 PM
 
Location: Jonquil City (aka Smyrna) Georgia- by Atlanta
16,248 posts, read 21,876,353 times
Reputation: 3587
Quote:
Originally Posted by Niners fan View Post
I could respond that maybe you are one of those rare employees would be accommodating in tough times.

Not to toot my own horn, but I try to manage so that my employees have no desire or reason to organize. You sound like you could have a similar philosophy on the employee side. I hope you are with a small company that really appreciates that.
No. I am with one of the biggest companies on the face of the Earth and they don't appreciate anything. They are one of those companies that you can do 1000 things right for and not hear a word but the second you make one small error they jump on you like a ton of crap. That is why they have UNIONS all over the place (IBEW, CWA). But they bought the company I work for (Cingular). I won't name them but I think you might have an idea as to who they are. At least they pay decently (not because they want to I am sure)
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Old 07-06-2008, 01:19 AM
 
3,853 posts, read 11,847,837 times
Reputation: 2521
waste of time. If you think your labor is worth more then go out to the open market and get a better job. Most people striking have realized that what they think their labor is worth doesn't hold up in the free market.
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Old 07-07-2008, 03:05 AM
 
1,075 posts, read 3,287,962 times
Reputation: 1135
Well i see were i did sidestep the darn topic so, strikes do become necessary but only when negotiations have reached a level of total impass and when the employees are seeking justified wage and benefits, NY seems purty hefty wages to me but i don't know the wage ranges there so no real comment on that.

Some strikes though are just totally rediculas, going on strike halfway through a project and asking for out of line wages, benefits, I'm non union as you can tell, been burnt by unions so have no use for them but i will say union apprentice programs i do back, lil wishy washy on my part yea but just me.

Another thing of interest is when negotiations do break down an arbitrator is brought in then it's prettywell take it or walk, good ol government put a no strike clause in place i worked, yup you can guess which way negotiations went there.
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