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I'll state this point again and again. No unsubsidized transportation system, in the history of civilization, has ever been profitable. NOT. ONE. SYSTEM. EVER.
I would hope a massive public infrastructure project would employ the truck drivers and others displaced by improved rail transport.
Fundamentally I do not believe the "free market" can come up with an optimal solution to these problems because it is seldom "free" and distorted by market domination and monopoly. This is a major problem and I think I will write a proper essay and send it to my legislators and Congress critters for their edification. If I use words like that they might not understand so I’ll use simpler language
are any of our current commuter rail systems profitable?
I have direct knowledge of the extensive Metra rail system in Chicago and its suburbs. Over the years the system has done pretty well, but it is ONLY about 55% supported with ridership revenue.
A case could be easily made that there are SOME lines that actually COULD be just 100% self-supporting, but actually profitable BUT since the politicians have BUILT_IN the natural rivalry between different towns, opposing socio-economic strata and do-gooders vs pragmatists the system serves a WIDER group than is profitable.
The EXACT same lessons can be drawn from MOST infrastructure -- look all the stupid "middle of nowhere road building projects" idiot pork kings like Robert Bryd or Murtha have snagged over the years, no good comes from them. Then look at the congestion that exists around major population centers and the "cupboards are bare" bs that surrounds them.
I am OPPOSED to letting any "infrastructure" bill get cranked out of the sausage-house that is known as Washington DC!
Instead how about they actually encourage INVESTMENT by private firms in not just roads, but INDUSTRIAL PLANTS by cutting out the horse-pucky of "environmental impact studys" and "wildlife habit mitigation" and "affected resident input". Hell, here in Illinois the CN railway wants to EXPAND its freight lines but idiot Durbin is roadblocking those efforts becuase it might lead to more whining cry babies who live in houses next to underutilized tracks having more trains rattle by. boo hoo. SUCK IT UP and let the people that WANT TO GROW THIER BUSINESS use the the resources they need access to!
The infrastructure plan is just a busy-work program to create jobs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by baystater
So guys. At this point I believe it almost a given that we are going to be spending a lot of money on infrastructure in the next couple of years. So.......since we are going to spend the money anyways whether we like it or not (let not argue of going into debt on this thread). Then???
What do you guys think needs to be absolutely accomplished in that building/rebuilding?
What must we do to (hopefully) make America more competitive in a global market?
What can be done to improve or expand Americans quality of life? (if that's possible.)
Basically.......if we are going to spend the money on infrastructure what must we do to maximize each dollar spent on it?
The infrastructure plan is just a busy-work program to create jobs.
No, busy-work would be digging holes and then filling them back in. In contrast, at the end of this infrastructure program, we would have tangible benefits which would last for decades.
Arguably, the best time to do infrastructure constructure is during a recession. The cost of labor, raw materials, and money (interest rates) are low compared to good economic times, so the government gets more bang for the buck.
No, busy-work would be digging holes and then filling them back in. In contrast, at the end of this infrastructure program, we would have tangible benefits which would last for decades.
Arguably, the best time to do infrastructure constructure is during a recession. The cost of labor, raw materials, and money (interest rates) are low compared to good economic times, so the government gets more bang for the buck.
no kidding.
Does anyone remember the bridge collapsing in Minneapolis? I can see this happening again. As much as I support transit and the funding of it, the highways are not in good repair, especially in our older cities. If people think we should keep neglecting them, then fine. Just don't be surprised when the next disaster happens.
it's absolutely time to do something about transportation as a whole in this country.
Does anyone remember the bridge collapsing in Minneapolis? I can see this happening again. As much as I support transit and the funding of it, the highways are not in good repair, especially in our older cities. If people think we should keep neglecting them, then fine. Just don't be surprised when the next disaster happens.
it's absolutely time to do something about transportation as a whole in this country.
Yes, we definitely have to do something about transportation in the US. I know this is a "global" world now, but I really wish we could stop policing the world, and spend some money on our ancient bridges before more start collapsing. A top notch rail system that connects all the way across country would be wonderful. I didn't vote for Obama, but I hope the new president will take us in a different direction. More money for US, more jobs for US, more spending on programs that benefit US, not the rest of the world.
Does anyone remember the bridge collapsing in Minneapolis? I can see this happening again. As much as I support transit and the funding of it, the highways are not in good repair, especially in our older cities. If people think we should keep neglecting them, then fine. Just don't be surprised when the next disaster happens.
it's absolutely time to do something about transportation as a whole in this country.
i can also see a bunch of big dig projects funded by the taxpayers. they have not handled the money they have spent so far very wisely.
What if part of the infrastructure plan is to provide tax credits/incentives to businesses and employers to relocate out to the suburbs and exurbs. This would allow for a better distribution of work and housing and usage of the transportation system.
One of the main reasons the Los Angeles Southland is able to hold as many cars and people is because the Los Angeles Southland (30+ million? people) doesn't really have a centralized downtown (along with suburban sprawl there was also commercial and industrial sprawl). There is West LA, Downtown LA, Burbank, Pasadena, Ontario, Anaheim, South Orange County, etc. etc.
If federal credits/incentives were given to companies to relocate or start up in less congested areas, then freeways and infrastructure loads would be drastically reduced. In the most part, businesses these days can easily communicate electronically. It makes sense... but of course politics would get involved between the counties/cities over federal dollars.
-chuck22b
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Actually a GOOD question!
